Category: show notes

Rabbit Hole of Research Episode 68: Hive Mind: The Newsletter

with guest: Wes Thorn

What if the scariest thing about a hive mind isn’t losing yourself, but finding out you never had a self to lose? Resistance may be futile.

LISTEN TO EPISODE 68

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In the 68th episode of Rabbit Hole of Research, from the Basement Studio, Joe, Nick, Georgia, Mary, and returning guest Wes Thorn (last seen defending the Simulation Hypothesis in Episode 26) dive into one of science fiction’s most unsettling concepts: the hive mind.

It starts with a simple question: is the private voice inside your skull really yours? From there the crew tumbles down the rabbit hole of collective consciousness, exploring nature’s original hive minds, bees, ants, slime molds, and the 80,000-year-old aspen grove that is technically one single organism, before asking what science actually knows about consciousness itself. Spoiler: not much. There are 29 competing theories and counting, and researchers still can’t agree on a definition.

The crew discusses Apple TV+’s new show Plur1bus, (no spoilers) a show about an alien signal decoded as a genetic blueprint that folds humanity into a single collective consciousness. The crew debates individuality vs. collective good, whether a true hive mind can have a leader (Nick is unconvinced), the Borg’s mythology-breaking queen problem, and what separates a hive mind from a cult.

Along the way they get into noetics and non-local consciousness, acquired savant syndrome, yoga philosophy’s concepts, the complexities of fungal networks, and whether the internet is already a proto-hive mind or just a very loud echo chamber.

And at the end, everyone has to answer the question: would you join?

All Crewed up in the Basement Studio with guest Wes Thorn

Come see Joe on several panels at ConCarolinas– Charlotte, NC (May 29–31, 2026 ) 

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

  • ConCarolinas – Charlotte, NC (May 29–31, 2026 ) – Joe attending as Guest
  • Slay the Lake Chicago Pride Book Fest Soundgrowler Brewing Co., Tinley Park, IL 60487 (June 27, 2026 12PM-5PM)
  • Shore Leave 46 – Lancaster, PA (July 10-12, 2026)Lancaster Wyndham Resort and Convention Center
  • Dragon Con – Atlanta, GA (September 3-7, 2026) – Joe attending as Professional

It’s Science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. Leave a Comment. And for email alerts sign-up for the Substack newsletter and never miss an episode, exciting updates or the bonus images we talk about on the episodes. 

We want to Hear From You (leave a comment):

  • Joe, Georgia, Mary, Wes, and Nick all gave their answer at the end, would you join the hive? What would it take to change your answer?
  • The episode draws a line between a cult and a true hive mind. A cult has a leader with a motive, a hive mind has neither. Do you buy that distinction, or like Nick, feel that it’s a technicality?
  • Mary brought up concepts from yoga philosophy, the idea that the “you” you think of as yours is actually a collective of everything that came before you. Does that make the idea of a hive mind less scary or more?

Drop your thoughts in the comments. We read them all, and your ideas often shape future episodes.

Leave a comment

The RHR in The Basement Studio (Left to Right: Joe, Mary, Nick, Georgia)

Future Episodes

  • Episode 70 – Nazca lines of Peru and crop circlesGuest: Lorena SalinasThe crew learns about Peruvian culture, explores ancient glyphs and touch on some alien conspiracies.

Three Part Spider-Man Series to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day

  • Episode 72 – Spider-Man Villain Series 1: Lab SafetyGuest: Tera Lavoie, PhDThe science behind Spider-Man’s rogues gallery starts here, with a deep dive into lab safety and what really happens when experiments go wrong.
  • Episode 74 – Spider-Man Villain Series 2: Scorpion and the Other ChimerasGuest: Erin C. AnthonyThe crew explores the science of chimeras, genetic splicing, and what it would actually take to create Spider-Man’s most dangerous foes.
  • Episode 76 – Spider-Man Villain Series 3: What His Villains Reveal About HimGuest: Comic YouTuber, Alex Hanes (@Hanes4Heroes)The conclusion of the Spider-Man trilogy takes a step back to ask what the science of his villains tells us about Spider-Man himself.

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Show Notes & Fun facts 

Books mentioned:

  • Lose Your Mind — Josh Pais
  • Honeybee Democracy — Thomas Seeley
  • The Wisdom of Crowds — James Surowiecki
  • More Than Human — Theodore Sturgeon
  • Last and First Men — Olaf Stapledon
  • The Midwich Cuckoos — John Wyndham
  • Starship Troopers — Robert Heinlein
  • The First Men in the Moon — H.G. Wells

Films and TV mentioned:

  • Plur1bus — (2026) Apple TV+
  • The Thing (1982) — John Carpenter
  • The Stuff (1985)
  • Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)
  • Village of the Damned (1960)
  • Annihilation (movie 2018); Jeff VanderMeer (novel 2014)
  • The Matrix (1999)
  • Avatar — James Cameron (2009)
  • Army of Darkness —Sam Raimi (1993)
  • Severance — Apple TV+
  • The Last of Us (2023—)
  • Mystery Science Theater 3000 — The Deadly Bees episode
  • Wonderman —Disney+ (2026) 

Video Games mentioned:

none in this episode. Come on Nick! LOL

Fun Facts to Impress Your Friends With:

  1. Your brain is telling you a story, slightly after the fact. The “you” that feels like a unified self making conscious decisions is actually a narrative your brain constructs after the neurons have already fired. You don’t decide and then act, you act, and then your brain tells you that you decided. Neuroscientist Anil Seth calls conscious experience a “controlled hallucination.”
  2. A single grove of trees in Utah is actually one organism. Pando, a grove of quaking aspen in Utah, is made up of 47,000 tree trunks that share a single root system. It is estimated to be 80,000 years old, making it one of the oldest living things on Earth, and it has no brain, no nervous system, and no central command. It is also currently dying due to human activity.
  3. Slime mold designed a better subway system than engineers did. Researchers placed food sources on a map of Tokyo at the locations of major train stations, then released slime mold. With no brain, no nervous system, and no blueprint, the slime mold grew a network nearly identical to the actual Tokyo rail system, surprisingly finding the most efficient routes through pure chemical signaling.
  4. There are 29 competing scientific theories of consciousness, and none of them fully work. A 2026 Scientific American feature surveyed research published over a decade and found 29 distinct theories of consciousness. The three most published are Global Workspace Theory, Integrated Information Theory, and quantum theories. Researchers can’t even agree on a definition, let alone a solution.
  5. A traumatic brain injury can unlock abilities you never learned. Acquired savant syndrome is a real and documented phenomenon. Derek Amato hit his head in a swimming pool accident and woke up able to play piano at concert level, seeing the music as black and white squares. Jason Padgett was mugged, hit his head, and woke up seeing the world in fractals, he became a mathematical savant despite having no mathematical background. The leading explanation is disinhibition, the injury turns off the brain’s filtering system, allowing access to processing that was always happening below conscious awareness.
  6. Some scientists think consciousness isn’t in your brain at all. Noetics is the study of consciousness as something that can’t be fully explained by brain activity alone. The Institute of Noetic Sciences, founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell after his overview effect experience on the moon, researches near-death experiences, mind-body healing, and intuition. The idea of non-local consciousness, that your mind exists beyond your skull, like music stored in a cloud you tune into rather than generate is controversial, but it’s the one framework where a hive mind wouldn’t require any new technology at all. Just a different understanding of what consciousness already is.

Episode Highlights

  • 00:00 Basement Studio Roll Call — Joe, Nick, Georgia, Mary, and returning guest Wes Thorn (Simulation Hypothesis, Episode 26) are all crewed up in the Basement Studio.
  • 01:09 Hive Mind Cold Open — Joe sets the mood asking whether the private voice inside your skull is really yours, and whether you’d even know if you were already part of a hive mind.
  • 03:17 Simulation Hypothesis Update — Wes reveals he has softened his stance on the simulation hypothesis since Episode 26 — “I have my doubts.”
  • 04:46 Nature Hive Minds — The crew digs into bees, ants, pheromone trails, waggle dances, and whether coordinated behavior is the same thing as shared consciousness.
  • 09:06 Plur1bus Explained — Wes breaks down the premise: an alien signal from Kepler-22, decoded as a genetic blueprint, folds humanity into a single collective consciousness with a directive to retransmit.
  • 10:53 Join or Resist Debate — The crew debates whether losing individuality to the hive is transcendence or horror — and whether creativity survives the merger.
  • 12:25 Borg and Cult Comparisons — Joe draws the line between a cult (hierarchy, leader, motive) and a true hive mind (no leader, no scarcity, no competitive edge) — “there is no Jim Jones in the hive.”
  • 17:58 Internet Echo Chambers — Georgia argues the internet already feels like a hive mind; Nick pushes back that it’s more echo chamber than collective consciousness.
  • 21:49 Escaping Big Tech — Mary explains her effort to starve the beast by switching to Ecosia, deleting the YouTube app, and watching without ads — sparking a broader conversation about algorithmic control.
  • 24:22 Studying Consciousness — Joe brings it back to the science: 29 competing theories, no agreed definition, and the fundamental problem of trying to study consciousness using the only tool you have — your own consciousness.
  • 27:55 Noetics and Savants — Wes introduces non-local consciousness; Joe follows with acquired savant syndrome; Derek Amato, Orlando Serrell, and Jason Padgett — and the idea that the brain may be a filter, not a generator.
  • 32:10 Yoga and Inner Layers — Mary brings in yoga philosophy’s model of the body as layers, and the concept of No Self, teasing out what is permanent from what is just passing thought.
  • 35:54 Plants and Fungal Networks — Joe explains the Wood Wide Web, mycelial networks, and Pando, the 80,000-year-old aspen grove that is technically one single organism.
  • 38:05 Plur1bus Ethics and Food — The crew debates what the joined humans will and won’t eat, and whether the hive’s environmental consciousness is the real motivation behind the signal.
  • 39:20 Opting Out of Plur1bus — Nick asks if you can opt out; the crew explains the 13 immune individuals including Carol, the show’s main protagonist, The crew agrees looks like Mary.
  • 40:30 Fungal Hive Networks — Joe tries to science the Plur1bus model, a tuner that allows everyone to focus on the same signal from the collective cloud.
  • 42:28 Slime Mold Intelligence — Joe explains how slime mold with no brain, no neurons, and no command center recreated the Tokyo rail system using pure chemical signaling.
  • 45:04 AI and Collective Minds — Wes draws a parallel between hive minds and AI, both are collective intelligence without individual authorship, and Joe pushes back on calling predictive text “intelligence.”
  • 46:21 Autonomy and Colonization — Nick connects the horror of losing autonomy to colonization, taking over personality, views, and culture under the guise of knowing better, “basically calling them savages.”
  • 50:58 Cults vs True Hive Minds — Mary argues a cult is a hierarchy not a hive; the crew lands on the key distinction: a true hive has no leader, no agenda, and no economic friction.
  • 57:32 No Self and Collective Power — Mary makes the case that the self is already a collective of everything that came before us, and that authoritarians throughout history have banned group gatherings precisely because of the strength in numbers.
  • 01:00:26 Hive Mind in Fiction History — Joe runs through the timeline from H.G. Wells (1901) to Plur1bus, hitting the Borg, The Thing, The Stuff, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and the first use of the phrase “hive mind” in 1950.
  • 01:05:00 Cowboy Culture and Fear — Mary and Joe dig into why American culture breeds suspicion of collective thinking, “we don’t aspire to be together, we aspire to be the cowboy.”
  • 01:07:57 Final Thoughts and Would You Join — The crew gives their verdicts: Nick is a hard no, Wes wants a 72-hour trial, Georgia is leaning no today, Mary would have questions, and Joe, wants to be king.
  • 01:16:36 Wrap Up and Thanks — The crew thanks Wes, reminds listeners to reach out, and:

“Stay curious, stay safe… Love Y’all!”

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Episode 67: The Mini: Planetary Defense: The Newsletter

The crew revisits Near Earth Objects, Dante’s Inferno maybe the first asteroid impact story, and “Science Holes” about smart fart-tracking underwear and a newly discovered space inside us.

LISTEN TO EPISODE 67

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In Episode 67: “The Mini,” Joe, Nick, and Georgia recap Episode 66: Saving Earth From Other Worldly Impact. The crew talks about, Episode 66 guest, Charles Blue’s First Light Con, the world’s first science and engineering fandom convention coming in 2027, Joe’s upcoming panel schedule at ConCarolinas in Charlotte (May 29th-31st), a correction from Nick about Bruce Willis, and a May 23rd DIY podcasting event at the Lake County Public Library. Joe shares a typewriter poem written for the show at the Final Girl Bar, and the crew plays back street interviews from the 5th annual MaiFest in Blue Island, IL where they asked the public the hard questions: Mars or lava tube?

In Science Holes, Joe discusses the history of fictional asteroid impacts all the way back to Dante’s Inferno, smart underwear tracking farts in real time, and a newly discovered fluid network that scientists are calling the interstitium. Nick talks about research that shows monkeys are eating mud to cope with tourist junk food, and the crew debates whether humans should do the same.

The crew closes out with what media they’ve been consuming: Widow’s Bay, For All Mankind, Daredevil: Born Again and the Punisher: The Last Kill, Nick is two episodes into Severance, Georgia is reading Pachinko by Min Jin Lee, Nick has been playing Borderlands 4 and Marvel Cosmic Invasion, and the crew suffers from a case of the Mandela Effect. 

And don’t forget to wish Joe a Happy Birthday on May 21st!!

Listen to Episode 66: Planetary Defense: Saving Earth from Other Worldly Impact

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

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It’s science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. And to see all the content (studio images and artwork) subscribe to the Rabbit Hole of Research newsletter!

Stay curious, stay speculative, stay safe, and we’ll catch you in the next rabbit hole. Love Y’all!

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

Upcoming Episodes

*The Mini will now be every other episode!

  • Episode 68 – Hive Mind: PlubrisGuest: Wes Thorn (returning guest — Simulation Hypothesis episode)The crew dives into hive minds, collective intelligence, and the blurry line between the individual and the swarm.
  • Episode 70 – Nazca lines of Peru and crop circlesGuest: Lorena SalinasThe crew learns about Peruvian culture, explores ancient glyphs and touch on some alien conspiracies. 

Three Part Spider-Man Series to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day

  • Episode 72 – Spider-Man Villain Series 1: Lab SafetyGuest: Tera Lavoie, PhDThe science behind Spider-Man’s rogues gallery starts here, with a deep dive into lab safety and what really happens when experiments go wrong.
  • Episode 74 – Spider-Man Villain Series 2: Scorpion and the Other ChimerasGuest: Erin C. AnthonyThe crew explores the science of chimeras, genetic splicing, and what it would actually take to create Spider-Man’s most dangerous foes.
  • Episode 76 – Spider-Man Villain Series 3: What His Villains Reveal About HimGuest: Comic YouTuber, Alex Hanes (@Hanes4Heroes)The conclusion of the Spider-Man trilogy takes a step back to ask what the science of his villains tells us about Spider-Man himself.

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What the Crew is Digging, Links, Resources, and Topics Mentioned in mini and/or full episode:

Links & Resources:

  • First Light Con (world’s first science and engineering fandom convention, 2027)
  • Final Girl Bar (Kenosha, WI)
  • Van Rung — typewriter poet and performer
  • Environmental Encroachment — New Orleans-style marching band, Chicago, IL
  • Blue Island Stray Dog Project — Facebook: Blue Island Stray Dog Project /Instagram: @BISTraysAlex’s art to Georgia for Library Month:

Science Holes:

1) Meteoritics and Dante’s Inferno: Examining Satan’s Fall as an Impact Event

Timothy Burbery 

Timothy, a researcher in the field of geomythology, argues that Dante’s Inferno (written 1308-1314) may contain the earliest fictional depiction of a large-body impact event. In Dante’s vision, the Devil is so massive and falls at such velocity that his landing creates Hell: a massive, circular, terraced crater reaching to the center of the Earth. The modern study of meteors wasn’t established until the 19th century, following the 1833 Leonid meteor shower, making Dante’s intuitive grasp of impact physics roughly 500 years ahead of its time.

2) Smart Underwear Tracks Farts in Real Time

Research presented at Digestive Disease Week, Chicago, May 2026

Researcher Brantley Hall at the University of Maryland developed a gas sensor that attaches to the inside of underwear to continuously monitor gut gas production. The study found that people with lactose intolerance produce significantly more gas than they realize or report. The device offers a new continuous method for studying gut metabolism and could improve understanding of conditions like irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).

3) Monkeys Eating Mud to Offset Tourist Junk Food

A two-year study found that monkeys in highly populated tourist areas were eating mud after consuming junk food given to them by tourists and locals. The mud appeared to create a protective barrier in the gut or replenish minerals disrupted by the processed food. When tourist activity decreased, mud consumption dropped proportionally. The crew connected this to broader research suggesting that soil exposure and dirt contact may actually benefit human health, particularly in children, by supporting immune development and reducing allergies.

4) I knew we were all Plants: 

https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/dtl4rtId_CfNXeh6lSIpHw

Scientists have identified a third fluid system in the human body, distinct from the lymphatic system (discovered 1622) and the cardiovascular system (discovered 1628). The interstitium is a large interconnected network of fluid-filled spaces found throughout the body, forming pathways between organs and allowing fluids, cells, and molecules to move between them. The discovery came partly from studying tattoo ink biopsies, where researchers noticed ink particles traveling deeper into tissue than the known systems could explain. The crew noted that similar interstitial spaces are well known in plants, raising the possibility that this is an ancient, evolutionarily primitive transport system that humans share with other organisms.

Science Terms:

• Bacteriophages — viruses that infect and replicate inside bacteria, playing an important role in the gut microbiome

• Cardiovascular system — the system of heart, arteries, veins, and capillaries that circulates blood, first described in 1628

• Carcinogens — substances capable of causing cancer in living tissue

• Fascia — the connective tissue layer beneath the skin through which interstitial fluid was observed traveling in tattoo biopsy studies

• Geophagy — the practice of eating earth or clay, documented in humans across parts of Africa, Asia, and South America

• Geomythology — the study of geological events and phenomena as they appear in myth, legend, and ancient literature

• Gut metabolism — the chemical processes by which the gut breaks down food and produces byproducts including gases

• Gut microbiome — the vast community of microorganisms, bacteria, and bacteriophages living in the intestines that help process food, regulate metabolism, and influence overall health

• Interstitium — a newly identified network of fluid-filled connective spaces throughout the body sitting between and connecting other tissue layers

• Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) — a common gastrointestinal condition affecting the large intestine, characterized by cramping, bloating, and irregular bowel habits

• Lactose intolerance — the inability to fully digest lactose, the sugar found in milk and dairy products, leading to gas, bloating, and digestive discomfort

• Leonids — a recurring meteor shower occurring approximately every 33 years in the constellation Leo; the 1833 shower was a turning point in understanding meteors as astronomical events

• Lymphatic system — the network that removes excess fluid from tissues and plays a role in immune function, first described in 1622

• Teratogens — agents that can disturb the development of an embryo or fetus, potentially causing birth defects

What the Crew is Digging:

TV

• Widow’s Bay (Apple TV+) — Georgia and Joe describe it as Stephen King mixed with Twin Peaks, with a creepy old town secret vibe. Released weekly, four episodes in at time of recording.

• For All Mankind — still working their way through the current season

• Daredevil: Born Again — finished, with the Punisher special The Last Kill

• Severance (Apple TV+) — Nick is two episodes in

• The Mandalorian — upcoming, mentioned with excitement

• Obsession — upcoming horror film, crew excited about the marketing campaign which included a phone number and an evolving billboard

Books

• Pachinko by Min Jin Lee — Georgia is halfway through and loves it

Video Games

• Borderlands 4 — Nick has been playing

• Marvel Cosmic Invasion — Nick describes it as an arcade side-scroller beat-em-up, tries to recruit Joe

• The Thing (PS2 original / remaster) — mentioned, along with an unresolved debate about whether Nick ever actually gave Joe his copy

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Episode 66: Saving Earth from Other Worldly Impact: The Newsletter

With Guest: Charles Blue

Near-Earth Objects, DART, tabletop defense games, and Starship Trooper conspiracies. The Rabbit Hole of Research crew heads to the Basement Studio to ask what happens when you look up.

LISTEN TO EPISODE 66

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In Episode 66 of Rabbit Hole of Research, Joe, Nick, Georgia, and Mary welcome Charles Blue, a science writer with over 35 years of experience in astronomy, Earth science, and science communications. Charles serves as Executive Communications Strategist for NASA’s Exploration Directorate, and has participated in tabletop exercises that simulate real government responses to potentially hazardous near-Earth objects (NEOs).

The crew digs into the difference between asteroids, comets, and NEOs, why objects approaching from the sun’s direction are nearly impossible to detect, and how impact risk changes dramatically depending on size, composition, and warning time. Charles walks through the global network of observatories tracking these threats, the communication challenges of telling the public something might be coming, and what those tabletop scenarios actually look like when the cone of uncertainty lands on the place he calls home.

From altering an asteroid’s albedo, its surface reflectivity, with paint, to kinetic impactors to the politics of nuclear deflection, the crew works through what we can actually do, and how NASA’s DART mission proved that moving an asteroid isn’t just Handwavium. Charles also discusses next-generation detection, and Joe asks about the dangers of asteroid mining liability, and pulls on the Starship Troopers conspiracy thread.

The real science of planetary defense is more interesting than anything Hollywood has thrown at us.

And yes, we’re looking at you Armageddon.

About Charles:

Charles is a science writer specializing in astronomy and Earth science. He has more than 35 years of strategic communications experience in science, engineering, and technology.

Charles currently serves as Executives Communications Strategist for NASA’s exploration directorate. He also served as the Writer/Editor for the National Science Foundation’s Directorate for Engineering and as public information officer for the National Radio Astronomy Observatory.

When not getting himself and others worked up about science, you’ll find him playing the Irish tenor banjo, haunting social media, exploring Colonial Williamsburg, and singing sea chanteys.

Joe will be one of 4 authors opening for a Blues Band: Avondalia Night Out – Rosa’s Lounge in Avondale, Chicago IL (May 14th 2026 7-8pm)- Joe reading

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

  • Avondalia Night Out – Rosa’s Lounge in Avondale, Chicago IL (May 14th 2026 7-8pm)- Joe reading
  • Creative Arts Summit – DIY Podcast Workshop at Lake County Public Library (Merrillville, IN) on May 23rd, 2026
  • ConCarolinas – Charlotte, NC (May 29–31, 2026 ) – Joe attending as Guest
  • Slay the Lake Chicago Pride Book Fest Soundgrowler Brewing Co., Tinley Park, IL 60487 (June 27, 2026 12PM-5PM)
  • Shore Leave 46 – Lancaster, PA (July 10-12, 2026)Lancaster Wyndham Resort and Convention Center
  • Dragon Con – Atlanta, GA (September 3-7, 2026) – Joe attending as Professional

It’s Science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. Leave a Comment. And for email alerts sign-up for the Substack newsletter and never miss an episode, exciting updates or the bonus images we talk about on the episodes. 

We want to Hear From You (leave a comment):

  • If you knew an asteroid was on a collision course with Earth, would you want the government to tell you? Or would you rather not know?
  • DART proved we can move an asteroid, but who should have the authority to make that call? One country, the UN, everyone?
  • What’s your favorite fictional take on an asteroid or comet impact, and don’t worry about the science, they all use a healthy dose of Handwavium?
  • The Starship Troopers conspiracy, did the government let Buenos Aires happen? We want to know where you stand.

Drop your thoughts in the comments. We read them all, and your ideas often shape future episodes.

Leave a comment

The RHR in The Basement Studio (Left to Right: Joe, Mary, Nick, Georgia)

Future Episodes

  • Episode 68 – Hive Mind: PlubrisGuest: Wes Thorn (returning guest — Simulation Hypothesis episode)The crew dives into hive minds, collective intelligence, and the blurry line between the individual and the swarm.

Three Part Spider-Man Series to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day

  • Episode 70 – Spider-Man Villain Series 1: Lab SafetyGuest: Tera Lavoie, PhDThe science behind Spider-Man’s rogues gallery starts here, with a deep dive into lab safety and what really happens when experiments go wrong.
  • Episode 72 – Spider-Man Villain Series 2: Scorpion and the Other ChimerasGuest: Erin C. AnthonyThe crew explores the science of chimeras, genetic splicing, and what it would actually take to create Spider-Man’s most dangerous foes.
  • Episode 74 – Spider-Man Villain Series 3: What His Villains Reveal About HimGuest: Comic YouTuber, Alex Hanes (@Hanes4Heroes)The conclusion of the Spider-Man trilogy takes a step back to ask what the science of his villains tells us about Spider-Man himself.

Share

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For more stuff (Images, Episode Highlights, events, etc), subscribe to our Substack newsletter!

Show Notes & Fun facts 

Link to the Vera Rubin Observatory data portal

Books mentioned:

  • Lucifer’s Hammer — Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
  • Footfall — Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
  • The Hammer of God — Arthur C. Clarke
  • The Conversation of Eiros and Charmion — Edgar Allan Poe
  • The Comet — Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr.
  • La Fin du Monde (Omega: The Last Days of the World) — Camille Flammarion
  • The Star — H.G. Wells
  • The Comet — W.E.B. Du Bois
  • When Worlds Collide — Philip Wylie and Edwin Balmer

Films and TV mentioned:

  • Armageddon (1998)
  • Deep Impact (1998)
  • Don’t Look Up (2021)
  • Moonfall (2022)
  • Meteor (1979)
  • Starship Troopers (1997)
  • Seeking a Friend for the End of the World (2012)
  • Greenland (2020)
  • Melancholia (2011)
  • Salvation (CBS, 2017-2018)
  • The Thing (1982)
  • For All Mankind (TV series)
  • Cosmos (Carl Sagan, 1980)
  • Cosmos (Neil deGrasse Tyson reboot)

Video Games mentioned:

  • Asteroids (Atari, 1979)
  • Planetary Annihilation (2016)

Fun Facts to Impress Your Friends With:

  1. The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs hit the worst possible spot, or best spot for us humans: If the Chicxulub impactor had struck open ocean or solid land, the dinosaurs might have survived. But, it hit a shallow limestone shelf off the Yucatan Peninsula, vaporizing millions of tons of sulfur-rich rock and pumping toxic chemicals into the atmosphere. Five seconds later in Earth’s rotation and Velociraptors might still be running around Chicago.
  2. DART changed an asteroid’s orbit NASA’s DART spacecraft didn’t just push Dimorphos, it triggered a massive ejecta plume that acted like a thruster, amplifying the push far beyond what the impact alone could deliver. The mission needed to change the orbital period by 73 seconds to be considered a success. It changed it by 33 minutes.
  3. The Chelyabinsk meteor injured 1,500 people and nobody saw it coming In 2013 a 20-meter asteroid exploded over Russia. Most injuries came from people rushing to the window to see the flash, just before the shockwave hit. Lesson: if you see a bright flash in the sky, get away from the windows.
  4. Painting asteroids is a proposed, low-cost planetary defense method It involves altering an asteroid’s albedo—its surface reflectivity—to change its orbit via the Yarkovsky effect. By coating an asteroid with a highly reflective material like white paint or alkali metal, solar radiation pressure increases, creating a faint, consistent thrust that can nudge it off a collision course with Earth over roughly 20 years
  5. The asteroid sample that may rewrite the origins of life Samples returned from asteroid Bennu by the OSIRIS-REx mission contained complex organic molecules including the nucleotide bases of DNA. The parent body may have had liquid water 4 billion years ago. It is entirely possible that the building blocks of life on Earth arrived via asteroid impact, Panspermia, meaning we may owe our existence to the very thing we are trying to defend against.
  6. The Vera Rubin Observatory is already changing everything The Vera Rubin Observatory in Chile is photographing the entire sky every three nights in high resolution, essentially creating a movie of the universe. Named after Vera Rubin, one of the discoverers of dark matter, it is expected to dramatically accelerate the discovery and tracking of near-Earth objects.

Episode Highlights

  • 00:00 — Basement Studio Roll Call The whole crew is back together, including Mary, who had to knock on the door to get let back in.
  • 00:41 — Meet Charles Blue Charles introduces himself as a science writer with 35 years of experience, including a stint working with NASA’s Planetary Defense Coordination Office, home of what he calls the coolest job title in the world: Planetary Defense Officer.
  • 03:45 — Why Planetary Defense Matters Joe delivers the opening monologue, setting the stage with a string of real impact events and the question of what happens when Earth’s luck finally runs out.
  • 05:18 — What Counts as a NEO Charles breaks down the difference between asteroids, comets, and near-Earth objects, and explains why the planetary defense community tracks potentially hazardous objects rather than just rocks.
  • 07:41 — Small Impacts, Big Consequences Charles walks through the Chelyabinsk event, explaining why 1,500 people ended up in the hospital — mostly because they ran to the window to watch the flash before the shockwave hit.
  • 09:41 — Global Tracking and Public Alerts Charles explains why keeping an impact threat secret is essentially impossible 
  • 11:45 — Tabletop Impact Scenarios Charles describes the real NASA tabletop exercises that simulate government responses to a potentially hazardous object, including one scenario where the cone of probability landed squarely on Washington DC.
  • 14:29 — Budget Cuts, Tools, and Sun Blind Spots The crew discusses the challenge of detecting objects approaching from the direction of the sun, which is exactly why Chelyabinsk went undetected, and raises concerns about what budget cuts might mean for planetary defense.
  • 20:39 — How We Deflect Asteroids Charles walks through the real deflection options, from painting an asteroid white to change its albedo, to the kinetic impactor approach proven by the DART mission.
  • 23:30 — Nukes, Rubble Piles, and Treaties The crew digs into nuclear deflection, the composition problem illustrated by the fluffy rubble pile asteroid Bennu, and the political complications of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty.
  • 27:13 — Movies, Aliens, and The Thing The crew takes a brief detour into favorite science fiction depictions of impact events, with Charles declaring his love for Don’t Look Up, and the entire crew confirming their love for The Thing.
  • 29:27 — Asteroids and the Origins of Life Charles and Joe ponders what it could mean that the Bennu asteroid mission returned samples that contained complex organic molecules including the nucleotide bases of DNA, raising the possibility that asteroid impacts may have helped kickstart life on Earth.
  • 33:28 — Chicxulub and the Dinosaur Extinction Charles explains the Chicxulub impactor hit the worst possible spot on Earth, for dinosaurs, a shallow limestone shelf that vaporized into toxic chemicals, and five seconds later in Earth’s rotation the dinosaurs might have survived.
  • 35:26 — The Oort Cloud and the Heliosphere Mary asks about the Oort Cloud and the heliosphere, and Charles explains the difference between the sun’s protective bubble and Earth’s magnetic field 
  • 38:24 — Cosmic Hazards and the Magnetic Shield Charles explains how a gamma ray burst from a distant galaxy was powerful enough to compress Earth’s magnetic field, and why red dwarf stars make terrible neighbors for life-bearing planets.
  • 41:57 — Asteroid Mining Risks Joe raises the question of whether commercial asteroid mining could accidentally nudge a rock onto a collision course with Earth 
  • 43:51 — The Psyche Mission and the Gold Rush Fantasy Charles traces the origin of the viral story that asteroid Psyche contains hundreds of quadrillions of dollars of metal, and explains why the engineering reality of actually getting to it makes the headline considerably less exciting.
  • 46:15 — Tabletop Scenarios Revisited Nick asks whether the tabletop exercises are basically just a very serious game, and Charles confirms that the participants control the policy response but not the physics — and that he brought a twenty-sided die just in case.
  • 47:25 — Next-Gen Asteroid Hunters Charles previews NEO Surveyor, launching no earlier than 2027, and the Vera Rubin Observatory — which is already photographing the entire sky every three nights and discovered over 2,000 new asteroids in its first ten hours of observations.
  • 51:52 — How Fast Can We Actually Respond The crew asks for a realistic minimum response time for a deflection mission, and Charles explains that the faster the launch capability, the more options open up, but orbital mechanics still require time that a last-minute discovery doesn’t provide.
  • 53:52 — The Starship Troopers Conspiracy Joe lays out the theory that the Buenos Aires asteroid strike in the 1997 film was a government-engineered false flag to justify war — and Charles is completely on board.
  • 56:07 — Comets in Classic Literature Joe walks through the surprisingly deep history of fictional comet and asteroid strikes, from Edgar Allan Poe in 1839 to Arthur C. Clarke’s The Hammer of God, with Charles adding the story of the 1910 Halley’s Comet cyanide panic.
  • 01:00:23 — Impact Movies and Games The crew runs through the full pop culture timeline from Deep Impact and Armageddon to Asteroids on the Atari, with Charles sharing the story of Seth Shostak’s rejected line from the Deep Impact script.
  • 01:04:38 — Becoming a Science Communicator Charles traces his career from picking up fossils in Pennsylvania coal country to writing about astrophysics, and explains how he ended up getting a butt dial from Vera Rubin herself.
  • 01:08:53 — Curiosity and the Jargon Barrier The crew discusses why scientific curiosity seems to get beaten out of people around middle school age, and Charles makes the case for putting science on the main stage at conventions rather than hiding it down the hall behind the water cooler.
  • 01:16:43 — Black Holes and Big Questions Mary raises the theory that black holes might be wormholes to other universes, and Charles confirms a recent paper suggests this might not actually break the rules of physics.
  • 01:18:41 — Telescopes and Sacred Lands Mary raises the tension between astronomical observatories and indigenous sacred sites, and Charles shares his direct experience working on the Thirty Meter Telescope site selection between Hawaii and Chile.
  • 01:21:53 — Funding Science — The Final Word Charles closes with a call for sustained public investment in planetary defense, noting that having to justify funding for finding asteroids that could end all life on Earth — so someone else can afford a second yacht — is a sentence that should not need to be said.

“Stay curious, stay safe… Love Y’all!”

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Episode 65: The Mini: Living Underground: News Letter

The crew revisits living underground, lunar lava tube safety, and drops into a science hole about a Stanford discovery that rewrites how we think life produces DNA

LISTEN TO EPISODE 65

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In Episode 65: “The Mini,” Joe, Nick, and Georgia recap Episode 64: Living Underground: Terrestrial and Extraterrestrial and still talking about their excitement for the Artemis II mission, which successfully flew around the Moon and back, with only a minor toilet malfunction along the way. They preview the upcoming planetary defense episode with guest Charles Blue, and break down what comes next in the Artemis program on the road back to the Moon.

Joe talks about the Catacombs of Paris, where a major renovation effort is modernizing one of the world’s most macabre tourist destinations, and the crew discusses lava tubes, moonquakes, and Georgia wonders what an atmosphere even is.

In Science Holes (the name of the current science research), Joe dives into a Stanford discovery that is challenging the foundations of molecular biology, a newly discovered bacterial defense system that breaks one of biology’s most fundamental rules. The crew connects it to CRISPR, bacteriophages, and Georgia has questions about gene editing approaches to treating sickle cell disease.

The crew closes out with what media they been consuming: For All Mankind season five, Daredevil: Born Again season two, Widow’s Bay, Spaceballs, Community, the video game Phasmophobia, Free Comic Book Day at 10th Planet Comics, and books including Strange Animals, Strange Buildings, The Art Cure, Havana Hangover, and Absolution by Jeff VanderMeer. And Joe celebrates being named by the Guild Literary Complex as one of the 35 Writers to Watch!

The crew will be at the 5th Annual Mai Fest – Blue Island, IL (May 9th 12-5pm)

Joe will be one of 4 authors opening for a Blues Band: Avondalia Night Out – Rosa’s Lounge in Avondale, Chicago IL (May 14th 2026 7-8pm)- Joe reading

Listen to Episode 64: Living Underground: Terrestrial and Extraterrestrial

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Stay curious, stay speculative, stay safe, and we’ll catch you in the next rabbit hole. Love Y’all!

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

Upcoming Episodes

*The Mini will now be every other episode!

  • Episode 66 – Planetary Defense: Saving Earth from Other Worldly Impact

    Guest: Charles Blue

    Exploring asteroid detection, planetary defense systems, and what it takes to protect Earth from cosmic collisions.
  • Episode 68 – Hive Mind: PlubrisGuest: Wes Thorn (returning guest — Simulation Hypothesis episode)The crew dives into hive minds, collective intelligence, and the blurry line between the individual and the swarm.Three Part Spider-Man Series to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day
    • Episode 70 – Spider-Man Villain Series 1: Lab SafetyGuest: Tera Lavoie, PhDThe science behind Spider-Man’s rogues gallery starts here, with a deep dive into lab safety and what really happens when experiments go wrong.
    • Episode 72 – Spider-Man Villain Series 2: Scorpion and the Other ChimerasGuest: Erin C. AnthonyThe crew explores the science of chimeras, genetic splicing, and what it would actually take to create Spider-Man’s most dangerous foes.
    • Episode 74 – Spider-Man Villain Series 3: What His Villains Reveal About HimGuest: To Be AnnouncedThe conclusion of the Spider-Man trilogy takes a step back to ask what the science of his villains tells us about Spider-Man himself.

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What the Crew is Digging, Links, Resources, and Topics Mentioned in mini and/or full episode:

Links & Resources:

Science Holes:

1) Can a Renovation Breathe New Life Into Paris’s Home for the Dead?

For more than two centuries, tourists have descended beneath the streets of Paris to visit the Catacombs — a labyrinth housing the remains of up to six million Parisians. Over the past five months, architects, designers, technicians, and masons have been renovating the vast tomb, installing new lighting and ventilation systems, restoring the bone walls, and preparing new audio guides. Some areas previously unlit will now be visible to visitors for the first time.

2) Scientists Stunned by ‘Fundamentally New Way’ Life Produces DNA

Protein-templated synthesis of dinucleotide repeat DNA by an antiphage reverse transcriptase Authors: Pujuan Deng, Hyunbin Lee, Carlo Armijo, Haoqing Wang, and Alex Gao Published: April 16, 2026 

A Stanford University team discovered a bacterial enzyme, Drt3b, that synthesizes DNA using its own protein structure as a blueprint — bypassing the traditional DNA→RNA→Protein central dogma entirely. Found in a bacterial defense system called DRT3, the enzyme protects bacteria from viral infection by producing repetitive DNA sequences without a nucleic acid template. Senior author Alex Gao called it “a fundamentally new way that life produces DNA.” The discovery could have practical applications in creating customized DNA strands and advanced biomaterials like DNA hydrogels.

3) Lyfgenia — FDA-Approved Gene Therapy for Sickle Cell Disease

Source: Infectious Disease Advisor 

Lyfgenia (lovotibeglogene autotemcel) is a one-time FDA-approved gene therapy from bluebird bio for sickle cell disease in patients 12 and older. Unlike CRISPR-based approaches, it uses a lentiviral vector to insert a functional modified beta-globin gene into a patient’s own stem cells, which are then reintroduced into the bone marrow to produce healthy red blood cells.

4) The crew also noted that a separate CRISPR-based medicine for sickle cell was approved by the FDA in 2023.

Science Terms:

  • Amino acids — the building blocks of proteins; humans produce 11 of the 20 needed, the rest must come from food
  • Atmosphere — a layer of gases surrounding a planet, held in place by gravity, that provides protection, insulation, and the ability to retain water
  • Autosomal recessive — a pattern of inheritance where two copies of a mutated gene are needed to cause a disorder; sickle cell anemia is autosomal recessive
  • Bacteriophages — viruses that infect bacteria
  • Central dogma of molecular biology — the standard flow of genetic information: DNA is transcribed into RNA, which is translated into protein
  • CRISPR — a bacterial immune defense system that recognizes and cuts viral DNA; adapted by scientists as a precision gene editing tool
  • DNA (Deoxyribonucleic acid) — the hereditary material in cells that carries the genetic instructions for life
  • DNA hydrogels — advanced biomaterials made from DNA strands; a potential application of the Drt3b discovery
  • Drt3b — a newly discovered bacterial enzyme that uses its own protein structure as a template to synthesize DNA, bypassing the traditional rules of base pairing
  • Gene therapy — a medical technique that introduces, alters, or replaces genetic material within a person’s cells to treat disease
  • Hemoglobin / HBB gene — the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen; a mutation in the HBB gene causes sickle cell anemia
  • Lentiviral vector — a modified virus used to safely deliver new genetic material into a patient’s cells
  • Lyfgenia (lovotibeglogene autotemcel) — an FDA-approved one-time gene therapy for sickle cell disease that uses a lentiviral vector to insert a functional beta-globin gene into a patient’s own stem cells
  • Messenger RNA (mRNA) — a molecule that carries genetic instructions from DNA in the nucleus out to the ribosomes where proteins are made
  • Moonquakes — seismic activity on the Moon, caused by factors including tidal forces from Earth and thermal expansion; different from earthquakes in origin and intensity
  • Phenotype — the observable physical traits of an organism resulting from its genetic makeup and environment
  • Protein — large molecules made of amino acid chains that carry out most of the work in cells, including building structures, catalyzing reactions, and regulating processes
  • Reverse transcriptase — an enzyme that synthesizes DNA from an RNA template; used by some viruses to replicate inside host cells
  • Ribosome — the cellular machinery that reads mRNA and assembles proteins from amino acids
  • RNA (Ribonucleic acid) — a molecule involved in coding, decoding, regulation, and expression of genes; messenger RNA carries instructions from DNA to ribosomes
  • Sickle cell anemia — a genetic disorder caused by a mutation in the HBB gene that causes red blood cells to form rigid crescent shapes, blocking blood flow and causing pain and organ damage
  • Stem cells — pluripotent cells that have not yet specialized and can be coaxed to develop into many different cell types; used in the Lyfgenia therapy
  • Transcription — the process by which DNA is copied into messenger RNA inside the cell nucleus
  • Translation — the process by which ribosomes read messenger RNA and assemble a corresponding chain of amino acids to build a protein

What the Crew is Digging:

TV

  • For All Mankind — Season 5, Apple TV+
  • Daredevil: Born Again — Season 2, Disney+
  • Widow’s Bay — Apple TV+, just started; described as atmospheric horror comedy with Twin Peaks vibes. Joe compared it to John Carpenter’s The Fog
  • Community — NBC sitcom starring Joel McHale, Chevy Chase, and Alison Brie; set at a community college. Nick highly recommends it

Film

  • Spaceballs (1986) — Nick rewatched it and the crew loves it

Books

  • Strange Animals — Jared K. Anderson; Georgia gives it five stars, Nick just started it
  • Strange Buildings — Uketsu (anonymous Japanese YouTube creator, identity unknown — described as a real-life Banksy situation); third in a series following Strange Pictures and Strange Houses; Georgia is currently reading and recommends it
  • The Art Cure — Daisy Fancourt; Joe is reading — about how art can be used as medicine for mental and physical health
  • Havana Hangover (Book 1) — Randy Richardson; Joe is reading; second book Another Havana Hangover just released
  • Absolution — Jeff VanderMeer; Book 4 in the Area X series (the series that began with Annihilation); Joe is working through it slowly alongside the other two

Video Games

  • Phasmophobia — Nick downloaded it again ahead of a big Alan Wake 2crossover event
  • Skate — Nick picked it back up

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Episode 64 Newsletter: Living Underground: Terrestrial and Extraterrestrial

On the day Artemis II launched, the RHR crew headed, with special guest Ernie Bell, PhD, down below the Basement Studio to ask the question fiction keeps digging up, can humans live long-term underground?

In the 64th episode of Rabbit Hole of Research, from the Basement Studio, Joe, Nick, Georgia, and Mary welcome rocket scientist, engineer, and a planetary geophysicist who studied lava tubes and volcanoes, Ernie Bell (currently a Spacecraft Flight Crew Operations Engineer at Blue Origin, and formerly a NASA Extravehicular Activities flight controller and crew trainer) to dig into one of science fiction’s most interesting settings, the underground.

And the timing couldn’t be better. The episode was recorded on the day Artemis II successfully launched, sending a crew of four toward the Moon for the first time since Apollo 17 in 1972. Ernie breaks down what comes next, SLS/Orion, docking with lunar landers from Blue Origin or SpaceX, and eventually, the question of this episode: will our first permanent foothold on the Moon be underground?

The crew explores cave types, karst limestone systems vs. lava tubes, how lava tubes form, why lunar and Martian tubes could dwarf anything on Earth due to lower gravity, and why going underground off-world isn’t just a Handwavium survival trope but a genuine strategy for surviving on other worlds.

They also get into the parts fiction almost always Handwavium away: cave life and extremophiles (Georgia’s favorite word), the silent hazards of CO2 buildup, radon, moisture, and the very real psychological toll of losing your day-night cycle underground, including the wild self-experiment of Michel Siffre. They tackle food (Joe and his calories), water recycling, the lessons of Biosphere 1 and 2, real-world bunkers, and whether Silo, Fallout, and The Expanse actually got any of it right. 

And remember if all else fails, the geothermal heat is free and a bunch of people underground makes for a great rave scene.

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

It’s Science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. Leave a Comment. And for email alerts sign-up for the Substack newsletter and never miss an episode, exciting updates or the bonus images we talk about on the episodes. 

We want to Hear From You (leave a comment):

  • Ernie mentioned that the Moon’s volcanic activity is essentially over, making its lava tubes potentially stable for billions of years. Does that make you more or less interested in living in one (you know Nick will be there)?
  • Michel Siffre spent months underground alone with no clock and completely lost track of time. How long do you think you’d last before you started to unravel?
  • The crew weighed in choosing from Silo, Fallout, The Expanse, For All Mankind, Kong’s Hollow Earth, The Matrix as fictional underground worlds to live in— which fictional underground world would you like to live in (feel free to pick another)?

Drop your thoughts in the comments. We read them all, and your ideas often shape future episodes.

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The RHR in The Basement Studio (Left to Right: Joe, Mary, Nick, Georgia)

Future Episodes

  • Episode 66 – Planetary Defense: Saving Earth from Other Worldly Impact

    Guest: Charles Blue

    Exploring asteroid detection, planetary defense systems, and what it takes to protect Earth from cosmic collisions.
  • Episode 68 – Hive Mind: PlubrisGuest: Wes Thorn (returning guest — Simulation Hypothesis episode)The crew dives into hive minds, collective intelligence, and the blurry line between the individual and the swarm.

Three Part Spider-Man Series to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day

  • Episode 70 – Spider-Man Villain Series 1: Lab SafetyGuest: Tera Lavoie, PhDThe science behind Spider-Man’s rogues gallery starts here, with a deep dive into lab safety and what really happens when experiments go wrong.
  • Episode 72 – Spider-Man Villain Series 2: Scorpion and the Other ChimerasGuest: Erin C. AnthonyThe crew explores the science of chimeras, genetic splicing, and what it would actually take to create Spider-Man’s most dangerous foes.
  • Episode 74 – Spider-Man Villain Series 3: What His Villains Reveal About HimGuest: To Be AnnouncedThe conclusion of the Spider-Man trilogy takes a step back to ask what the science of his villains tells us about Spider-Man himself.

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Show Notes & Fun facts 

Movies, TV & Pop Culture Mentioned

  • Michel Siffre’s cave isolation experiments (1962 and 1972)
  • ESA’s CAVES program — astronaut training in cave systems in the Canary Islands
  • NASA’s Controlled Ecological Life Support System (CELSS) research, late 1970s
  • Biosphere 2 (1991–93) — sealed ecosystem experiment in Arizona, still standing and still in use
  • The Greenbrier, West Virginia — Congressional bunker hidden beneath a luxury resort, operational for 30 years
  • Cheyenne Mountain — NORAD’s underground facility, built on 1,300 springs
  • Survival Condo Project, Kansas — decommissioned Atlas missile silo converted into luxury bunker apartments
  • Lava Beds National Monument, Northern California — accessible lava tubes including “Golden Dome,” recommended by Ernie
  • JAXA’s SELENE probe — confirmed a 50km lava tube near the Marius Hills region on the Moon (2017)
  • The Suprachiasmatic Nucleus (SCN) — the brain’s internal clock, disrupted by loss of light cycles underground

Books

  • Journey to the Center of the Earth — Jules Verne (1864) 
  • The Time Machine — H.G. Wells (1895)
  • Caves of Steel — Isaac Asimov (1954) 
  • Wool / Silo — Hugh Howey (2012) 
  • Mars Trilogy: Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars — Kim Stanley Robinson (1993–96) 

Film & TV

  • A Trip to the Moon — Georges Méliès (1902) — early sci-fi classic featuring a cave encounter on the Moon
  • Journey to the Center of the Earth — Brandon Fraser version 
  • Total Recall — Arnold Schwarzenegger (1990) 
  • The Descent (2005) 
  • The Fifth Element (1997)
  • The Matrix — Joe’s dream underground destination
  • Silo — Apple TV+ 
  • Fallout — Amazon Prime — Vault-Tec
  • The Expanse — Ernie’s pick
  • For All Mankind — Apple TV+ 
  • Severance — Apple TV+ 
  • Stranger Things — Netflix 
  • Mars — National Geographic miniseries — Ernie’s recommendation
  • Snowpiercer
  • Ice Age
  • Kong: Skull Island / Godzilla vs. Kong — Nick’s underground destination of choice
  • Squid Game

Video Games

  • Fallout series (1997–)

Fun Facts to Impress Your Friends With:

  1. Lava tubes on the Moon could be enormous. Due to the Moon’s lower gravity, lunar lava tubes are estimated to reach 300–400 meters across — large enough to fit a city inside. On Earth, the biggest tubes Ernie has been in are around 20 meters in diameter. The Moon’s volcanic activity is essentially over, meaning those tubes have been sitting stable for billions of years.
  2. The olm salamander is the ultimate cave survivor. This blind, pale cave-dwelling amphibian can live over 100 years and go up to 10 years without food. It has no eyes, no pigmentation, and has adapted so completely to cave life that it cannot survive outside of it. Real cave evolution makes fictional cave monsters look very unambitious.
  3. Michel Siffre lost his mind underground — literally. In 1962 the French speleologist spent two months alone in a cave with no clock. His internal day stretched from 24 hours to 48 hours. By the end he thought only 34 days had passed. When he repeated the experiment for six months in 1972 he psychologically unraveled around month four — crying without cause, unable to concentrate, and near suicidal. Fiction almost never shows this.
  4. Feeding an underground colony is harder than fiction makes it look. NASA’s Controlled Ecological Life Support System (CELSS) research from the late 1970s determined that a crew of four needs approximately 50 square meters of agricultural growing space per person to be nutritionally self-sufficient. Most fictional underground cities show one small room of plants feeding hundreds of people. That’s pure Handwavium.
  5. There is more life underground than above it. Estimates suggest 15–23 billion tonnes of carbon exist as microbial life underground — more biomass than all surface plants and animals combined. Extremophile bacteria have been found 3km underground in South African gold mines, living off hydrogen produced by radioactive rock decay with no sunlight and no photosynthesis whatsoever. Life, uh, finds a way.

Episode Highlights

  • 00:00 Basement Studio Roll Call — Joe, Nick, Georgia, and Mary welcome rocket scientist and engineer Ernie Bell to the Basement Studio.
  • 00:22 Meet Ernie the Rocket Scientist — Ernie casually introduces himself as a rocket scientist working on lunar landers, formerly a planetary geophysicist who studied lava tubes — “rockets and stuff.”
  • 01:22 Artemis Launch Excitement — The crew celebrates the successful Artemis II launch, the first crewed mission to the Moon since Apollo 17 in 1972, recorded on the day it happened.
  • 03:41 Moon Bases and Going Underground — Ernie explains that moon bases will start on the surface, but papers going back to the 1960s and 70s have made the case for eventually going underground.
  • 05:15 Why Humans Fear Below — Joe delivers the cold open: every culture has a word for what’s below, our ancestors painted in caves with no natural light, and fiction has been obsessed with the underground ever since.
  • 07:01 What Makes a Cave — Ernie breaks down the two primary cave types on Earth: karst limestone formations and lava tubes, and how each forms differently.
  • 07:31 How Lava Tubes Form — Ernie walks through the inflation and drainage process that creates lava tubes, including the cooling skin, structural integrity, and how the molten lava drains out leaving a void.
  • 08:59 Skylights and Tube Reuse — The crew learns about skylights — holes in lava tube ceilings from collapse or formation — and that tubes can be reused by subsequent lava flows, leaving behind benches and “lava-sickles.”
  • 11:55 Lava Tubes on Moon and Mars — Due to lower gravity, lunar lava tubes could be 300–400 meters across. Ernie describes a known pit at Marius Hills with a ceiling 25 meters thick and 40 meters of void space beneath it.
  • 15:40 Cave Life and Extremophiles — Joe and Ernie discuss troglobites, the deep biosphere, and the golden microbial growth Ernie has seen firsthand at Lava Beds National Monument in Northern California.
  • 17:57 Health Risks Underground — The crew covers CO2 buildup, moisture, radon, vitamin D deprivation, and Ernie’s personal story of getting turned around in a limestone cave as a kid.
  • 19:57 Circadian Rhythm Breakdown — Joe details Michel Siffre’s cave isolation experiments, his internal clock drifting to 48 hours, and his psychological unraveling in month four of his 1972 experiment. Ernie notes astronauts on the ISS experience 16 sunrises a day and have to maintain their day-night cycle by the watch.
  • 24:32 Sci-Fi Underground Realism — The crew debates how well Fallout, Silo, and The Expanse handle the realities of underground living, with Ernie praising The Expanse for thinking seriously about agricultural scale and agoraphobia in returning Martians.
  • 28:35 Biosphere Experiments and Vaults — Joe and Ernie break down Biosphere 2 — oxygen crashes, faction formation, failed food production — and how it mirrors Vault failures in Fallout.
  • 31:27 Bunkers, Catacombs and Getting Lost — The crew covers the Greenbrier, Cheyenne Mountain, luxury missile silo condos, the Paris Catacombs, and Ernie’s childhood experience of getting lost in a limestone cave.
  • 36:27 Cave Anxiety and Total Darkness — Joe brings up infrasound at 18–19Hz resonating in cave passages causing anxiety, unease, and a sensation of presence. Ernie confirms that even in big lava tubes, true darkness sets in very quickly.
  • 37:52 Underground Protection Basics — Ernie explains the three key protections caves provide off-world: radiation shielding, thermal regulation, and micrometeoroid protection, and how even covering a surface habitat with regolith provides some of those benefits.
  • 39:23 Sealing Caves and Quake Risks — The crew discusses sealing cave systems to hold atmosphere, moonquakes and marsquakes, and how you’d engineer around structural risks the same way Californians build for earthquakes.
  • 40:08 Building Habitats Inside Tubes — Ernie describes the concept of placing inflatable or rigid habitat structures inside a lava tube so that even if the cave shakes, you don’t lose your atmosphere.
  • 42:02 Food and Water Reality Check — Joe drops the NASA CELSS figure: a crew of four needs 50 square meters of agricultural space per person to be self-sufficient. Ernie explains that lunar water ice is likely distributed in regolith like damp sand, not in glaciers, making extraction a serious engineering challenge.
  • 47:33 Growing Underground and Biohacks — The crew discusses hydroponics, genetic editing, algae, and cyanobacteria as potential food and CO2 scrubbing solutions for underground colonies.
  • 51:36 Yeast Diet and Space Snacks — Joe references Asimov’s Caves of Steelyeast vats as the likely underground diet. Ernie sets the record straight on what astronauts actually eat — rehydrated meals, M&Ms by another name, and no, the freeze-dried ice cream is just for tourists.
  • 53:30 How Astronauts Train — Ernie describes astronaut training in vehicle mockups, running through timelines and activities exactly as they will in space, including food testing. He then jokes that they actually just put them on a rocket and say good luck.
  • 56:04 Lava Tubes and Science Value — Ernie points out that beyond practical habitation, lava tubes give access to geology that is tens to hundreds of millions — potentially billions — of years old, with no surface weathering.
  • 57:17 Life in Martian Caves — Joe asks whether Martian caves are the most likely place to find remnants of life. Ernie notes the Moon is unlikely, Mars is possible, and the more benign thermal environment of a cave would be an advantage.
  • 01:00:43 Would You Move to Mars — Ernie says yes, he’d go — exploration is part of what humans need to keep moving forward. Mary is a hard no. Joe would go to study the life. Nick is packed and ready. Georgia wants a postcard.
  • 01:06:34 Cost to Reach Space — Ernie estimates launch costs have dropped dramatically with SpaceX’s Falcon Nine, from roughly $10,000 per pound down by nearly an order of magnitude, though the SLS that launched Artemis II costs on the order of a couple billion dollars per rocket.
  • 01:08:13 Favorite Fictional Undergrounds — Ernie is torn between For All Mankind and The Expanse, and recommends Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars Trilogy. Joe wants the Matrix rave. Mary wants to be part of the mycelium network. Georgia and Nick are headed to the Hollow Earth in the Kong-verse.
  • 01:12:13 Wrap Up and Next Topics — The crew thanks Ernie, celebrates the Artemis II launch, and teases the next episode on planetary protection — what happens when we start dropping things on other worlds?

“Stay curious, stay safe… Love Y’all!”

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Episode 63: The Mini: Splatterpunk Newsletter

The crew revisits fear and horror, Georgia watches Blair Witch for the first time, and their Slay the Lake road trip. Science news: CRISPR defenses, semen-derived eye drops, and airborne eDNA.

LISTEN TO EPISODE 63

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In Episode 63: “The Mini”, Joe, Nick, and Georgia recap Episode 62: Fear, Phobias, and Splatterpunk: When Terror Becomes Entertainment and share their road trip to Slay the Lake, an LGBTQ+ horror book festival at the Final Girl Bar in Kenosha, plus a stop at the Milwaukee Zine Fest on the way.

The crew shares a listener recommendation from Alex, John Wiswell’s 2024 novel Someone You Can Build a Nest In, and dig into an interesting question: why can some people read horror but not watch it? They also recommend The Monkey and Netflix’s Something Very Bad Is Going to Happen, which share a similar vibe of generational cursed-object horror.

The science segment works through Nick’s use of the word “small”, and the communication barrier between non-scientist and scientist, before landing on how bacteria defend themselves against bacteriophages, CRISPR’s discovery and uses, and the frontier of epigenetic gene regulation. Joe then highlights two studies: one on semen-derived exosomes as a non-invasive eye-drop drug delivery system for retinoblastoma, and one on detecting wildlife via airborne environmental DNA, and what happens when you throw some Handwavium at the limitations.

The crew also shares what media they’ve been digging into: Blair Witch Project, Jason Takes Manhattan, SNL UK, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, the video game Phasmophobia, and the book Strange Animals. And they celebrate Joe being named by the Guild Literary Complex as one of the 35 Writers to Watch! with a celebration event April 30th at Epiphany Center for the Arts.

Listen to Episode 62:

RABBIT HOLE OF RESEARCHFear, Phobias, and Splatterpunk: When Terror Becomes Entertainment 

In the 62nd episode of Rabbit Hole of Research, Joe, Nick, and Georgia welcome splatterpunk author Phrique to the Basement Studio to dig into one of horror’s most primal questions: what separates a debilitating phobia from a Tuesday night movie with friends?

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

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It’s science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. And to see all the content (studio images and artwork) subscribe to the Rabbit Hole of Research newsletter!

Stay curious, stay speculative, stay safe, and we’ll catch you in the next rabbit hole. Love Y’all!

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

Upcoming Episodes

*The Mini will now be every other episode!

  • Episode 64 – Into the Deep: Humans, Caves, and the Final Frontier: Guest: Ernie Bell, PhD (NASA and Blue Origin)What can living underground on Earth teach us about surviving on other worlds?
  • Episode 66 – Planetary Defense: Saving Earth from Other Worldly Impact: Guest: Charles Blue
    Exploring asteroid detection, planetary defense systems, and what it takes to protect Earth from cosmic collisions.
  • Episode 68 – Hive Mind: Plubris: Guest: Wes Thorn (returning guest — Simulation Hypothesis episode)The crew dives into hive minds, collective intelligence, and the blurry line between the individual and the swarm.
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What the Crew is Digging, Links, Resources, and Topics Mentioned in mini and/or full episode:

Listener Comment:

  • Alex recommended Someone You Can Build a Nest In by John Wiswell (2024) — a queer shape-shifting fantasy horror novel. Winner of the Locus Award for Best First Novel, Hugo Award finalist.

Topics Mentioned:

  • CRISPR — bacterial immune defense system and gene editing tool
  • Bacteriophages — viruses that infect bacteria
  • Epigenetic gene regulation — turning genes on and off without changing the underlying DNA
  • Exosomes — tiny vesicles cells use to pass information to each other
  • Retinoblastoma — rare malignant eye cancer, most prevalent intraocular malignancy in children
  • Airborne environmental DNA (eDNA) — surveying ecosystems and tracking species through genetic material in the air
  • COVID wastewater surveillance — referenced as a parallel application of environmental DNA monitoring

Movies & TV:

  • The Blair Witch Project (1999) — Georgia watched it for the first time and highly recommends it. Nick also gives a nod to the 2016 follow-up Blair Witch.
  • Jason Takes Manhattan — Friday the 13th Part VIII (1989), watched at the Final Girl Bar during Slay the Lake. Joe’s favorite scene: Jason punches a guy’s head clean off on a rooftop in New York.
  • The Monkey (2024) — watched after Episode 62, highly recommended. Similar vibe to Something Very Bad Is Going to Happen.
  • Something Very Bad Is Going to Happen — Netflix series, 8 episodes. Generational cursed-object horror with a similar tone to The Monkey.
  • SNL UK — Nick is watching on Peacock and enjoying it. Currently on episode four.
  • Brooklyn Nine-Nine — Nick just finished rewatching the full series. Stars Andy Samberg, comedy about a police precinct.

Video Games:

  • Phasmophobia — Nick jumped back into the ghost hunting game after a crossover event with Alan Wake 2 was announced.

Books:

  • Strange Animals — recommended by Georgia to Nick, who just started it. Georgia is about 70% through and confident enough in it that she recommended it after only five chapters.

Science Briefs:

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Episode 62 Show Notes: Fear, Phobias, and Splatterpunk: When Terror Becomes Entertainment

The RHR crew explores the neuroscience of fear, the psychology of disgust, and the genre brave enough to find out exactly where terror ends and entertainment begins.

LISTEN TO EPISODE 62

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In the 62nd episode of Rabbit Hole of Research, Joe, Nick, and Georgia welcome splatterpunk author Phrique to the Basement Studio to dig into one of horror’s most primal questions: what separates a debilitating phobia from a Tuesday night movie with friends?

Starting with the ancient alarm system wired into every human brain, the crew explores the neuroscience of fear’s two pathways; the lightning-fast response that bypasses conscious thought entirely, and the slower response that keeps you in your seat when the monster appears. From there the conversation spirals into why disgust and fear are more deeply entangled than most people realize, how the brain’s prediction engine works to build suspense, and why humor isn’t just a break from the tension, it’s a way to reset the fear dial.

Phrique breaks down the difference between extreme horror and splatterpunk, shares the political allegory and queer subtext running through his work, and explains why, no matter how hard he tries to write something purely for shock value, a moral always finds its way in. The crew also tackles the uncanny valley of flesh, the Cronenberg principle of gradual bodily transformation, the crew’s personal phobias, and why enjoying horror might actually be good for you.

Plus a stack of recommendations across film, books, video games (check the newsletter), and a spotlight on the Slay the Lake LGBTQ+ Horror Book Fest at The Final Girl Bar in Kenosha on April 18th.

Where to Find Phrique:

  • All things Phrique: https://linktr.ee/phrique
  • Phrique writes phoolery, not at all plain & far from simple. For legal reasons, he only writes what the voices tell him to. He willfully abuses alliteration & injects innuendo where it ought not be, with the intent to make the reader giggle, gasp, and gag at his gaiety. He wants you to laugh at things you shouldn’t, so he’s not the only one being stared at.
  • Phrique’s books: Gig of the Damned, Scissor Me Timbers, Curse Me By Your Name, Rearranged Guts, In The Club We Are All Monsters 

Slay the Lake 

LGBTQ+ Horror Book Fest | The Final Girl Bar | Kenosha, WI Saturday, April 18, 2026 | 3PM–8PM | 18+ Event Ticketed early entry $15 (2PM–3PM) includes tote bag, blind date with a book, and early access. 10% of early entry sales go to the Transgender Law Center. Tickets: slaythelake.com

The event is also collecting book donations for LGBT Books to Prisoners — a trans-affirming, racial justice-focused, prison abolitionist project sending books to incarcerated LGBTQ+ people across the US. Check lgbtbookstoprisoners.org for their current needs list and bring donations to the event.

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

  • 35 Writers to Watch: Celebration Party – Epiphany Center for the Arts 201 South Ashland Ave., Chicago, IL, United States (April 30th 7-9pm)
  • 5th Annual Mai Fest – Blue Island, IL (May 9th 2026 12-5pm)
  • Avondalia Night Out – Rosa’s Lounge in Avondale, Chicago IL (May 14th 2026 7-8pm)- Joe reading
  • Creative Arts Summit – DIY Podcast Workshop at Lake County Public Library (Merrillville, IN) on May 23rd, 2026
  • ConCarolinas – Charlotte, NC (May 29–31, 2026 ) – Joe attending as Guest
  • Shore Leave 46 – Lancaster, PA (July 10-12, 2026)Lancaster Wyndham Resort and Convention Center
  • Dragon Con – Atlanta, GA (September 3-7, 2026) – Joe attending as Professional

It’s Science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. Leave a Comment. And for email alerts sign-up for the Substack newsletter and never miss an episode, exciting updates or the bonus images we talk about on the episodes. 

We want to Hear From You (leave a comment):

  • Fear without control is a phobia. Fear with control is entertainment. But where is YOUR line? Is there a horror movie, book, or game that pushed you past it?
  • The crew shares their personal phobias; crowds, deep water, beaches, hobos, and clowns made the list. What’s yours, and did a horror movie give it to you or did you already have it?
  • Phrique, Joe, Nick, and Georgia all have a soft spot for practical effects and the gritty texture of 70s and 80s horror. What’s a modern horror film you think actually gets it right?

Drop your thoughts in the comments. We read them all, and your ideas often shape future episodes.

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The RHR in The Basement Studio (Left to Right: Joe, Mary, Nick, Georgia)

Future Episodes

  • Episode 64 – Into the Deep: Humans, Caves, and the Final FrontierGuest: Ernie Bell, PhD (NASA and Blue Origin)What can living underground on Earth teach us about surviving on other worlds?
  • Episode 66 – Planetary Defense: Saving Earth from Other Worldly Impact
    Guest: Charles Blue
    Exploring asteroid detection, planetary defense systems, and what it takes to protect Earth from cosmic collisions.
  • Episode 68 – Hive Mind: PlubrisGuest: Wes Thorn (returning guest — Simulation Hypothesis episode)The crew dives into hive minds, collective intelligence, and the blurry line between the individual and the swarm.

For more stuff (Images, Episode Highlights, events, etc), subscribe to our Substack newsletter!

Show Notes & Fun facts 

Movies, TV & Pop Culture Mentioned

  • Phenomena (Dario Argento)
  • Trilogy of Terror: three segments each based on unrelated short stories by Richard Matheson. (3rd segment has the Zuni fetish doll Joe was talking about)
  • The Thing (John Carpenter)
  • Event Horizon
  • The Fly (1986)
  • Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978)
  • The Blob
  • The Stuff (1985)
  • Monkey Shines (1988)
  • The Monkey (2024, based on Stephen King short story)
  • Cabin in the Woods
  • Rosemary’s Baby
  • The Shining
  • Evil Dead / Evil Dead II
  • Blood Beach
  • Cheerleader Camp
  • When Evil Lurks
  • High Tension
  • Blood and Black Lace (Dario Argento)
  • Deep Red (Dario Argento)
  • Barbarella
  • Annihilation
  • Overboard (referenced jokingly)
  • Dorian Gray (referenced in Phrique’s collaborative story)
  • Junji Ito (artist referenced in relation to uncanny valley and body horror)
  • David Cronenberg (body horror principle)
  • George Romero (zombie films as political allegory)
  • John Waters (disgust as art, boundary-pushing storytelling)
  • Chuck Palahniuk (cited as a Phrique influence)

Books Mentioned

  • The Stand — Stephen King (Franny referenced)
  • Haunter — Charlee Jacob (recommended by Phrique)
  • Works by Clive Barker 
  • Works by Grady Hendrix (mentioned by Georgia)
  • Only Good Indians — Stephen Graham Jones (recommended by Georgia)

Video Games Mentioned:

  • Dead Space
  • The Callisto Protocol
  • Resident Evil 7: Biohazard (recommended by Nick)
  • Doom (referenced by Joe)
  • Toxic Commander (upcoming — John Carpenter scoring)
  • Fallout (Pip-Boy radio referenced)

Fun Facts to Impress Your Friends With:

  1. Your brain has a fear shortcut that fires in about 12 milliseconds.Neuroscientist Joseph LeDoux mapped two pathways fear signals take through the brain. The “low road” bypasses conscious thought entirely, shooting straight from the thalamus to the amygdala and triggering a fight-or-flight response before you even know what scared you. That’s why you jump before you think.
  2. You can’t logic your way out of a phobia, and neuroscience explains why.When a phobic stimulus hits, the amygdala fires an emergency signal and the prefrontal cortex (your rational brain) partially goes offline. Stress hormones flood the body. Thinking your way through it in the moment is nearly impossible because the thinking brain has literally been sidelined.
  3. Horror enjoyment follows an inverted U-shape. Researchers at the Recreational Fear Lab at Aarhus University studied 110 haunted house visitors wearing heart rate monitors. The finding: too little fear is boring, too much becomes genuinely unpleasant. The sweet spot in the middle, just enough arousal without tipping into distress, is exactly where horror lives.
  4. Disgust and fear are more entangled than you think, and splatterpunk exploits both. The anterior insula, your brain’s disgust processing center, doesn’t just react to gross things, it also processes your awareness of your own body. When body horror describes flesh transforming or boundaries dissolving, your insula doesn’t just file it as external information. It recruits your own body-awareness system. That’s why body horror doesn’t just look disturbing. It feels disturbing.
  5. The uncanny valley was first described in 1970, and horror has been using it ever since. Japanese robotics professor Masahiro Mori coined the term to describe the deep unease triggered by something that looks almost-but-not-quite human. Body horror, transformation narratives, and creature features have been weaponizing this response for decades. Something fully alien can be processed as “other.” Something almost human forces your mirror neuron system to engage, and when the simulation hits a violation, empathy flips to horror.

Episode Highlights

00:00 — Basement Crew Intro The whole crew is in person and accounted for: “We’re all crewed up down here. All in person. Surviving. Living.”

00:26 — Meet Phrique Splatterpunk author Phrique introduces themselves: “In that year and a half I put out like five books.”

02:17 — Fear vs. Fun Monologue Joe sets the stage with his opening monologue: “We seek out the exact sensation that in any other context we’d call trauma. Same chemicals, same brain regions firing, same body braced for horror.”

04:08 — What Is Splatterpunk? Phrique draws the line between extreme horror and splatterpunk: “Extreme horror is literally for shock value, splatterpunk is basically all that, but for a reason, with a moral, with some kind of commentary.”

06:23 — Stories With a Message Phrique breaks down the allegory running through their work: “When you hold things in, it manifests.”

10:43 — Fear Psychology and Tropes Joe connects splatterpunk to the brain’s ancient fear hardware: “Our brain, our hardware and software… it’s pretty ancient. A lot of our fear structure is based on keeping us safe.”

17:38 — Humor as Misdirection Phrique explains the strategic use of comedy in horror: “I like that the humor takes you… I’ll usually do it right after I just killed like 12 drag queens and I make you love them.”

24:39 — Creepy Toys and Old Horror The crew riffs on childhood horror memories and cursed toy movies: “Don’t remove this tag… and then it comes to life.”

28:55 — Final Destination Phobias Phrique connects the log truck scene to real workplace anxiety: “I work in a steel mill, they tell us someone dies there probably about once a month.”

30:13 — Defining Phobias and Disgust Phrique offers a working definition and connects germophobia to evolution: “A phobia would be when it causes distress, when it affects you and causes you to go out of your way to avoid it.”

35:26 — Music Sets the Mood The crew unpacks how music rewrites a scene’s emotional DNA: “You go to a minor key versus a major key, it could be the happiest scene ever, but you feel it internally.”

40:28 — First Horror Memories Phrique recalls their earliest horror experience: “I knew you are not supposed to be watching this. This is going to mess you up.”

41:34 — Favorite Horror Classics Georgia names her all-time favorites: “Rosemary’s Baby. And The Shining.”

42:38 — Why We Love Horror The crew lands on horror’s core appeal: “It’s almost like a rollercoaster… I survived that. And now I know don’t run upstairs.”

44:50 — PhD Dreams and Fear Research Phrique reveals their abandoned psychology path: “My dissertation was going to be on basically what you talked about when did we take this emotion that is literally built into us and turned it into something we seek out?”

47:13 — Splatterpunk and Body Horror Joe introduces the Cronenberg principle: “Make it slow, make it last, you begin to buy into that transformation happening in front of you.”

49:37 — Retro Creature Features The crew geeks out over classic creature horror: “The Stuff is one of my favorites, people just eating some stuff that bubbles out of the ground.”

52:04 — Sci-Fi Horror Crossovers Phrique shares their reluctant foray into sci-fi horror writing: “Dead Space is one of my favorite games ever, I played all of those.”

54:47 — Uncanny Valley Explained Joe traces the concept back to its origin: “Japanese robotics professor Masahiro Mori in 1970, when you look at things that are personified in human form but not quite human, it triggers that deep unease.”

58:35 — Art Covers and Romcom Gore Phrique reveals their new book cover and genre mashup: “It’s literally an office romcom about Bloody Mary, but I’m calling it a romcom with a body count. The body count is 29.”

01:03:35 — Slay the Lake Community Phrique reflects on finding their people: “It’s a safe space, but also you’re being basically celebrated…yep, we’re going to, we got stuff to say, we have books to put out.”

01:10:07 — Phobias and Top Picks The crew shares personal phobias and recommendations: “When Evil Lurks, that’s my new favorite. It was High Tension before, but When Evil Lurks was just great.”

01:16:02 — Wrap Up and Slay the Lake Event Plug Joe sends everyone off with the details: “Go out, support a lot of great authors. You’re supporting a lot of good causes going there.”

“Stay curious, stay safe… Love Y’all!”

Join Rabbit Hole of Research on Discord: https://discord.gg/2nnmKgguFV

Subscribe and Share our Substack newsletter to get email updates, never miss an episode, and spread the word!! Don’t forget to give us 5 stars or a like!

Episode 61 Show Notes: The Mini: Lassoing Truth

The crew revisits truth, maps, flat Earthers, and April Fool’s history. Science news: Artemis II, found time, zombie cells, and a spider disguised as a fungus. And no fooling, a fist bump with RZA

LISTEN TO EPISODE 61

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In Episode 61: The Mini, Joe, Nick, and Georgia revisit their conversation from Episode 60: Lassoing the Truth Serumwith retired Purdue Northwest philosophy professor David Detmer, where they explored truth, self-deception, and the uncomfortable science of knowing what’s real, and how your own brain might be the least reliable narrator in the room.

The crew follows up on a few threads from the full episode: the true size of continents and how the Mercator projection has been misleading us for centuries, the myth that girls are bad at math, and the Dunning-Kruger effect, illustrated by one of the most confident bank robbers in history. They also dig into Bob Knodel’s laser gyroscope experiment from the documentary Behind the Curve, where a flat Earther accidentally proved the Earth is round and refused to believe it.

In the new Segment, Science News (still looking for a new name and Georgia wants theme music) they talk about a newly discovered spider species that mimics a zombie fungus to hunt and hide, the surprising psychology of found time, zombie cells revived by genome transplant, and viruses (bacteriophages) that get more potent in space. Plus an Artemis II update/reflection and the crew share their opinions on being close, but not landing on the moon, which happened to Michael Collins on the historic 1969 Apollo 11 mission, he kept the seats warm orbiting the moon, while Neil Armstrongand Edwin “Buzz” Aldrin, made history and walked on the moon.

The crew talks about their field trip to the Music Box Theater for the Beyond Chicago Film Festival, where they saw RZA’s One Spoon of Chocolate, and a surprise meeting and fist bump with RZA himself.

Plus, what the crew is digging: Daniel Suarez’s Change Agent, S.A. Cosby’s All the Sinners Bleed, Maggie Smith’s Dear Writer, Kristen Ritter’s Retreat, the Duffer Brothers’ Something Really Bad is Going to Happen (Netflix), For All Mankind (Apple TV), Daredevil Born Again (Disney+), Monarch and Platonic (Apple TV).

Listen to Episode 60

In the 60th episode of Rabbit Hole of Research, Joe, Nick, Mary, and Georgia are joined by retired Purdue Northwest philosophy professor David Detmer, PhD to discuss with one of the oldest and slipperiest questions in human history, what is truth, and how do we find it?

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

It’s science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. And to see all the content (studio images and artwork) subscribe to the Rabbit Hole of Research newsletter!

Stay curious, stay speculative, stay safe, and we’ll catch you in the next rabbit hole. Love Y’all!

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

Events & Conventions:

Upcoming Episodes

*The Mini will now be every other episode!

  • Episode 62 – The Science of Fear: Phobias, Physiology & Splatterpunk
    Guest: Phrique
    Diving into the biology of fear, phobia formation, and the extreme horror genre of splatterpunk with author Phrique.
  • Episode 64 – Into the Deep: Humans, Caves, and the Final FrontierGuest: Ernie Bell, PhD (NASA and Blue Origin)What can living underground on Earth teach us about surviving on other worlds?
  • Episode 66 – Planetary Defense: Saving Earth from Other Worldly Impact
    Guest: Charles Blue
    Exploring asteroid detection, planetary defense systems, and what it takes to protect Earth from cosmic collisions.
  • Episode 68 – Hive Mind: PlubrisGuest: Wes Thorn (returning guest — Simulation Hypothesis episode)The crew dives into hive minds, collective intelligence, and the blurry line between the individual and the swarm.

What the Crew is Digging, Links, Resources, and Topics Mentioned in mini and/or full episode:

Maps & Projections

Documentaries & Clips

  • Behind the Curve (2018) — documentary following flat earthers including Bob Knodel’s laser gyroscope experiment — available on Netflix
  • Mon Mothma’s Senate Speech — Andor (Disney+) — Season 1, Episode 10

Listener Contributions

Dunning-Kruger Effect

  • Identified by David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999
  • Tendency of people with low ability in a specific area to give overly positive assessments of their ability

Gender & Math

Events

Books

  • Change Agent — Daniel Suarez
  • All the Sinners Bleed — S.A. Cosby
  • Dear Writer — Maggie Smith
  • Retreat — Kristen Ritter

Movies

  • One Spoon of Chocolate — Written and directed by RZA, presented by Quentin Tarantino. Screened at the Beyond Chicago Film Festival at the Music Box Theater. Wide release expected May 2026.

TV Shows

  • Something Really Bad is Going to Happen — Duffer Brothers (Netflix)
  • For All Mankind — Season 4 (Apple TV)
  • Daredevil: Born Again — (Disney+)
  • Monarch: Legacy of Monsters — (Apple TV)
  • Platonic — (Apple TV)

April fool’s day that got Joe:

Science Briefs:

Artemis II — To the Moon!

  • Launch: April 1, 2026
  • NASA’s Artemis II was the first crewed test flight around the moon, carrying four astronauts on a flyby mission to test systems and emergency procedures before future lunar landings.

Viruses Get More Potent in Space

  • Research showing that viruses, specifically bacteriophages, alter their structure and increase infection rates in microgravity conditions.
  • Potential application: more virulent bacteriophages could lead to a new generation of antibiotic alternatives, since bacteriophages naturally attack bacteria without harming humans.

The Cordyceps Spider: A New Spider Species That Mimics a Zombie Fungus

  • Taczanowskia waska sp. nov. — a newly described spider species from Ecuador
  • Authors: David R. Díaz-Guevara, Alexander Griffin Bentley, Nadine Dupérré
  • This spider mimics the appearance of being infected by Gibellula — the parasitic fungus that turns spiders into zombies — to ward off predators and ambush prey.
  • Represents the first reported case of arachnid mimicry of an araneopathogenic fungus.

Gained Time Is Expanded: The Psychology of Found Time

  • Study: Gained Time Is Expanded: Examining the Psychological and Behavioral Consequences of Gaining Time
  • Authors: Gabriela Tonietto, Selin Malkoc, Kun Wang, and Sam Maglio
  • An unexpected windfall of spare time — like a cancelled meeting — feels subjectively longer than the same amount of scheduled time, creating a unique sense of expanded opportunity.

Zombie Cells Return from the Dead After a Genome Transplant

  • Paper: Selection-free whole genome transplantation revives dead microbes
  • bioRxiv, March 14, 2026
  • Authors: Zumra Peksaglam Seidel, Nacyra Assad-Garcia, Vanya Paralanov, Feilun Wu, Olivia Chao, Elizabeth A. Strychalski, Eugenia Romantseva, Tyler Goshia, J. Craig Venter, John I. Glass
  • Researchers inserted the genome of one bacterial species into the cellular machinery of a “dead” cell, reviving its biological activity, a breakthrough for synthetic biology that could open doors for engineering organisms to produce medicines and materials.

Love Y’all! Don’t forget to Rate the show!

The Show Notes: Episode 18: Cybernetic Futures: Technology Meets Humanity Are We Ready?

We dive into the realm of cybernetics, the possibility of advanced prosthetics, Biohacking, futuristic sci-fi scenarios like in RoboCop, and what it means to be human.

Listen to Episode 18

Welcome to the Shownotes! We are staying organized with timestamps (folks seemed to like them). As always, feel free to comment, and we will address it in future shows! Enjoy. 

Don’t forget to Rate the show!

Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/2nnmKgguFV

Subscribe and Share our Substack newsletter (https://jothamaustin.substack.com) to get email updates, never miss an episode, and spread the word!

artwork by 

Georgia Geis  @atomic_number14

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Joe’s Show Notes:

00:00 Welcome to the Basement Studio

00:27 Craft Beer Chat

  • Joe: Seed, Stalk, and Root dark lager- collaboration between Brooklyn brewery and Cajun Fire
  • Nick: Fúme — Mac Brewery — Barrel and Flow Collaborative Beer

01:08 Introduction to Cyborgs

1:17 Definition of Cyborg

01:49 Cyborgs in Pop Culture

  • Bicentennial Man:
  1. Issac Asimov’s story
  2. Robin Williams’ movie (1999)

04:17 Inspector Gadget and RoboCop (1987)

10:34 Bionic Eyes and Prosthetics

20:42 Exploring Robocop’s Directives

  1. “Serve the public trust”
  2. “Protect the innocent”
  3. “Uphold the law”
  4. “Any attempt to arrest a senior officer of OCP results in shutdown” (Listed as [Classified] in the initial activation)

21:33 Treasure Planet‘s Cyborg Pirate

22:24 The Eyeborg Project

23:30 Biohacking and Grinders

24:18 Hearing Colors: An Artistic Innovation

25:15 Biomagnets and Body Modifications

26:57 Brain-Computer Interfaces and Neuralink

27:25 Wearable Medical Devices

31:47 Cyborg Insects and Environmental Monitoring

33:22 Ethical Questions in Cybernetics

36:39 Personal Cybernetic Enhancements

39:16 Concluding Thoughts and Future Possibilities

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The Show Notes: Episode 17: Brainwaves and Superpowers: Can Humans Really Move Objects with Their Minds? Separating facts from Handwavium.

Joe, Nick, and guest Michael Lynn talk about the science and handwavium of telepathy and telekinesis. Discussing everything from twins, government-funded research, brainwaves, to the truly bizarre.

In Episode 17 of the Rabbit Hole of Research, hosts Joe and Nick welcome guest Michael Lynn, a material scientist and YouTube creator behind the YouTube Channel: ROTOFORGE, to discuss the fascinating and mysterious topics of telepathy and telekinesis. They delve into historical references, pop culture depictions (like Jedi from Star Wars, Professor X from Marvel, and Matilda), and even touch upon government experiments such as those depicted in ‘The Men Who Stare at Goats.’ Michael provides insights grounded in science and even contemplates the potential of future technological advancements in brain communication. Enjoy the fun banter, quirky references, and let’s not forget—what’s everyone drinking today? Dive in for an exciting exploration of whether these fantastical abilities could ever become reality!

Listen to Episode 17

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Guest: Michael Lynn follow him on his YouTube CHANNEL: ROTOFORGE

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artwork by 

Georgia Geis @atomic_number14 https://www.instagram.com/atomic_number14/

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Joe’s Show Notes:

00:00 Welcome to Episode 17

00:18 Meet Our Guest: Michael Lynn

01:09 Nick and Joe Communicated telepathically?

2:26 What are we Drinking?

03:44 The Science and Fiction of Telepathy

  • Term coined in 1882 by Frederic W.H. Myers of the Society for Psychical Research, but similar ideas likely predated the term itself.
    • Direct Mind-to-Mind Communication: the direct transfer of thoughts, emotions, or information between individuals without any intermediate tools or devices.
    • Types of Telepathy:
    • Emotive Telepathy: Transmission of emotions or feelings.
    • Mental Telepathy: Transfer of thoughts, concepts, or ideas.
    • Physical Telepathy: Influence over physical states or actions, often considered part of psychokinesis.

4:39 What is peer review?

Definition: the evaluation of scientific, academic, or professional work by others working in the same field.

4:49 Government Research and Historical Accounts

7:14 The ancient Indian Sanskrit epic Mahabharata

7:28 Jesus

8:17 1889 story “To Whom This May Come” by Edward Bellamy

8:48 Dr. Sleep (movie:2019)

10:45 fMRI- Functional Magnetic Resonance

11:51 The Concept of Twin Telepathy

12:31 Identical twins with similar brain structure

13:07 Genetic sequencing of telepaths and twin telepathy

15:22 Animal Communication and Brain Waves

  • John Lilly
    • Elephants: use low-frequency rumbling calls eallowing for transmission of simple messages over long distances.
    • Cetaceans (whales, dolphins): echolocation may involve a form of telepathy by encoding information in sound waves.
    • Primates: chimpanzees and bonobos may have a basic form of mind-reading by interpreting each other’s intentions and emotions.

16:33 Brainwaves

  • Brainwaves are the electrical impulses generated by the billions of neurons communicating with each other in the brain. These waves of electrical activity can be detected and measured using techniques like electroencephalography (EEG).
  • There are several main types of brainwaves, categorized by their frequency ranges:
    • – Delta waves (0.1-3 Hz): Deep sleep, unconscious states
    • – Theta waves (4-7 Hz): Light sleep, meditation, intuition
    • – Alpha waves (8-12 Hz): Relaxed but awake state
    • – Beta waves (13-30 Hz): Alert, focused mental activity
    • – Gamma waves (30+ Hz): Higher cognitive functions

17:00 Brain Computer Interface (BCI) and Biophotonics

20:19 Japanese concept of “ishin-denshin“

26:18 Long Term exposure to microwaves

22:06 Theoretical Possibilities and Genetic Engineering

27:14 Organoid

28:29 Super-man story and Space Jesus

31:11 Telepathy and Corporate Espionage

32:10 Nick Cage movie Next (2007)

  • Telechronology—Rabbit Hole of Research original term for mental time-travel

37:05 Telekinesis and Government Experiments

38:54 Sheep go to Heaven and Goats go to Hell

42:00 Telekinesis: it’s always about the Calories

47:31 Chicago Southside Makerspace

48:29 Francis E Deck

49:23 Nick Cage movie reference again

50:00 Monsters, Inc (2001)

  • Children are rumored to have telekinetic powers

50:22 Telepathy in Fiction and Pop Culture

53:59 Wrapping Up and Final Thoughts

Check out Michael’s Youtube channel: Rotoforge

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