Chimeras, organoids, CRISPR epigenetic editing, explosive diarrhea outbreak, Spider-Noir, mules vs. hinnies, and the 2026 World Cup as a disease modeling event
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Episode 75 Transcript
Paste Newsletter In Episode 75: The Mini, Joe, Nick, and Georgia recap Episode 74: Scorpion and the Other Chimeras — part two of their Spider-Man villain series featuring guest Erin C. Anthony, evolutionary ecologist and middle school science teacher — and dig into a few things that didn’t make it into the full episode.
Joe explain what organoids are, tiny, self-organizing 3D tissue cultures grown from stem cells that can mimic actual human organs, and why they are important in biomedical research. Including what happened when they sent some into space on the Artemis II mission.
Georgia wants to know more about the explosive diarrhea outbreak, caused by the microorganism Cyclospora cayetanensis, spreading across 31 states. What you should know about the parasite, and how to avoid catching it.
Joe goes down the science hole of CRISPR and epigenetics. Scientists are now targeting the chemical markers that sit on top of DNA, turning genes on and off without editing the genetic sequence directly. Plus: gut bacteria have a population-level survival trick that might change how we think about evolution.
The episode wraps with the crew going down the Media hole. Kirk Douglas in the 1951 noir Ace in the Hole, T. Kingfisher’s parasitic horror novel Wolf Worm, Maurice Broaddus’s steampunk Afro-SF Pimp My Airship, Beronda L. Montgomery’s When Trees Testify, Watch Dogs 2, Widows Bay, and Return to Silent Hill. Joe talks about his time at Shore Leave 46, and a shoutout from Friends of the Podcast, Alex with a GTA III trench coat wiki, and Liorean Doodles art work.
Last day July 15th: Pre-Order: Touch of Noir 2027 Wall Calendar —
12 months of all-original art by Jim and Georgia; pre-orders open now, with mailing expected in September
Catch-Up on the Spider-man Villain Series: Listen to Episode 72 and 74:
EPisode 72: Spider-Man villains part 1: Lab Safety
EPisode 74: Spider-Man villains part 2: Scorpion and the other Chimeras
Check out what the RHR crew is creating:
Joe:
- Named by the Guild Literary Complex as one of the 35 Writers to Watch!
- Red Line: Chicago Horror Stories Anthology featuring a new story by Joe!
- Joe’s Sci-fi physiological thriller Novel: Will You Still Love Me If I Become Someone Else?
- Essay by Joe: From Beyond Press: Specific Knowledge: Jotham Austin, II, PhD on Transformations in Fiction
It’s science for Weirdos
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Stay curious, stay speculative, stay safe, and we’ll catch you in the next rabbit hole. Love Y’all!
Future Events to Hang with the Crew:
Podcast Cross-Appearances
- Watch Joe on Joe Compton’s YouTube channel 21Grams
- The RHR crew on Ben Tanzer’s This podcast will change your life: episode three hundred seventy-nine
Events & Conventions:
- Dragon Con – Atlanta, GA (September 3-7, 2026) – Joe attending as Professional
Upcoming Episodes
*The Mini will now be every other episode!
Three Part Spider-Man Series to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day
- Episode 76 – Spider-Man Villains Part 3: What His Villains Reveal About HimGuest: Comic YouTuber, Alex Hanes (@Hanes4Heroes)The conclusion of the Spider-Man trilogy takes a step back to ask what the science of his villains tells us about Spider-Man himself.
- Episode 78 – Briar East Woods – Urban DeforestationGuest: Anne Sedlacek
- Episode 80: Magic: the Power and Cost of Magic SystemsGuest: B.L.Mostyn
What the Crew is Digging, Links, Resources, and Topics Mentioned in mini and/or full episode:
Links & Resources:
- Pre-Order: Touch of Noir 2027 Wall Calendar12 months of all-original art by Jim and Georgia; pre-orders open now, with mailing expected in September
Science Holes:
1. Organoids
Organoids are tiny, self-organizing three-dimensional tissue cultures grown in the lab from stem cells. By mimicking the complexity and functionality of actual human organs, brain, liver, lungs, they give scientists powerful models for studying human development, modeling diseases, and testing drugs without animal testing. They range in size from the width of a hair to about 5 millimeters, so nutrients can penetrate without the need for blood vessels.
Current and future uses:
- Personalized medicine — grown from your own stem cells to test how your body responds to a specific drug before you take it
- Disease modeling — studying how conditions develop at the organ level
- Drug discovery and toxicity testing — a more human-accurate alternative to animal models
On the Artemis II mission, organs-on-a-chip, organoids cultured on a business-card-sized container, were taken into microgravity, returned to Earth, and are now being studied for how spaceflight affects organ function.
2. Cyclospora cayetanensis Outbreak
Outbreak reported across 31 states, linked to fecally contaminated agricultural water
Cyclospora cayetanensis is a single-celled protozoan parasite, not a bacterium, spread through agricultural water contaminated with fecal matter. It infects leafy greens and fresh herbs that are difficult to wash thoroughly, like cilantro, spring mixes, and berries with grooves and crevices where the parasite’s oocysts can hide.
Key facts:
- Causes gastrointestinal illness lasting approximately 14 days
- Does not spread person to person. Traced to farms and agricultural water contamination
- Standard cleaning methods (vinegar, lemon juice, even bleach) are less effective due to the parasite’s thick cell wall
- Best defense: cook food to 158°F / 70°C
- Humans are the only known hosts
- Currently considered endemic, not pandemic
3. CRISPR’s Next Act: Editing the Epigenome
Nature
A new wave of biotech startups are developing therapies that use modified CRISPR tools, specifically inactive Cas9 (dCas9) fused with effector proteins, to target epigenetic markers rather than cutting or changing DNA itself. By adding or removing chemical groups like methyl groups from specific genes, these tools can switch genes on or off with precision, creating long-lasting and potentially heritable changes without altering the underlying genetic code.
4. Gut Bacteria Have a Genetic Failsafe
The Microbiologist
Gut bacteria use epigenetic changes to hedge their bets against stressors like antibiotics and dietary shifts. Rather than all individuals in a bacterial population responding the same way, some members epigenetically switch certain genes on or off, priming a select few to survive if environmental conditions change dramatically. This gives the population a built-in survival advantage, even if most are wiped out, a resistant subset can repopulate.
5. 2026 World Cup and Infectious Disease Modeling
The Scientist
With the 2026 FIFA World Cup underway across multiple host cities, public health officials are using tabletop disease modeling, similar to the planetary defense modeling discussed with Charles Blue in Episode 66, to prepare for the conditions created by massive gatherings, international travel, and cross-border migration. Potential outbreak risks being modeled include measles, influenza, mosquito-borne viruses, and at the high end, Ebola, with travel restrictions already in place from countries with active outbreaks.
Science Terms
- Organoid — a tiny, self-organizing 3D tissue culture grown from stem cells that mimics the structure and function of a human organ
- Organ-on-a-chip — organoids cultured on a small flat container, used for portable experimentation including in microgravity
- Protozoan — a single-celled eukaryotic organism with a nucleus and mitochondria, distinct from bacteria
- Cyclospora cayetanensis — a protozoan parasite spread through fecally contaminated water, causing prolonged gastrointestinal illness
- Endemic — a disease or outbreak that is localized, traceable, and predictable within a specific region
- Pandemic — a disease event that has reached global scale, no longer contained locally
- Epigenetics — chemical modifications that sit on top of DNA, controlling which genes are expressed without changing the underlying sequence
- DNA methylation — the addition of methyl groups to DNA to silence gene expression
Media Holes: What the Crew is Digging:
Georgia
Film
- Ace in the Hole (1951, dir. Billy Wilder) — starring a young Kirk Douglas as a cocky journalist who turns a cave-in accident into a media circus. Georgia describes it as intense, poignant, and relevant to media and journalism today.
- Obsession — Georgia saw it and says it lives up to the hype. Made by a 26-year-old director for approximately $1 million, it has reportedly earned 200 times its budget.
Book
- Wolf Worm — T. Kingfisher — a horror novel set in 1899 following a female scientific illustrator working with an eccentric scientist studying parasitic flesh eating insects.
Joe
Book (fiction)
- Pimp My Airship — Maurice Broaddus (2023) — an alternate history steampunk Afro-SF adventure set in the Indianapolis area. Joe met Maurice at ConCarolina and talked with him about coming on as a guest.
Book (nonfiction)
- When Trees Testify: Science, Wisdom, History, and America’s Black Botanical Legacy— Dr. Beronda L. Montgomery (2026), a plant biologist explores how seven trees and a cotton shrubs are intertwined with Black history and culture in America.
Children’s Book
- Young MacDonald — David Milgrom — a children’s book that explores genetics by reimagining the Old MacDonald song with chimeric animals like a Hig (a horse-pig) that says oink-neigh.
Nick
Video Game
- Watch Dogs 2 — Ubisoft — a hacker open-world game set in San Francisco. Nick describes it as a good analog for real-world tech dangers and surveillance culture.
TV
- Maximum — Apple TV, starring Tatiana Maslany (She-Hulk). Nick has been enjoying it.
- Widows Bay — Apple TV. Nick just finished it and loved it. Georgia mentions a possible bonus episode.
Film
- Return to Silent Hill — an adaptation of Silent Hill 2. Nick said it was a rough watch with early-2000s-feeling CGI, though it stays true to the source game. Recommends the recently re-released video game over the film.
Friends of the Pod
Liorean Doodles — a Discord community member who shared artwork with Nick.here
Alex sent in the GTA III wiki page on the man in the trench coat:
GTA III Serial Killer Wiki: https://gta-myths.fandom.com/wiki/SerialKiller(GTAIII)
“Stay curious, stay safe… Love Y’all!”
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Transcript
joe: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to The Rabbit Hole of Research down here in the basement studio for the mini. You have me, Joe.
Geo: Georgia.
joe: got
Nick: got Nick.
joe: We’ve got Nick. We’re all crewed up for the mini. You know how we do it. A little mini recap of the last episode
74,
74, part two of our Spider-Man villain series, Scorpion and the other Chimeras.
And so we had our guest, Erin C. Anthony. And so she was a evolutionary biologist and science communicator and teacher, and so really cool. It was a great episode.
Geo: And I was just thinking before we started recording but I was just saying, very… it had a lot of science- It did
which is
joe: before we started recording, what I was just saying, very… it had a lot of science. It did. Which is- yeah. Yeah the superhero
Nick: Yes, we are very sciencey this time around
Geo: The superhero
joe: science. I was gonna say the superhero ones, even last [00:01:00] season for the Fantastic Four, the first time we tried this format, we did a four-part- Mm-hmm
series. It got pretty science-y in there.
Geo: mean-
joe: some f- and philosophical at times, so that was,
Nick: do feel like it’s ’cause they’re hu- they’re written by humans. Like it, it has that more grounded feel for us, where we all kinda have that bits to relate, and they were just as curious about science as we are,
joe: Mm-hmm. Or
Nick: and that’s where we all tie in
Geo: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like Erin brought a lot of that. Obviously, that’s a really big passion,
joe: passion-
Geo: to communicate science and, Yeah.
joe: Yeah, so a few
Nick: And it’s always a good jumping off point.
joe: was just
gonna
Nick: was just saying it’s always good jumping off point for everyone to get into the sciences
joe: Yeah, it’s like the hook, hook them in here you go. And you got a little science over here. Don’t look
over here. A little science. Yeah. facts to impress your friends with, right? That’s what we always say, so we try to give it to
you
Geo: Pressure for a minute, right? That’s what they say, so we try to give it to you. That’s what we always say.
Nick: Is that what we always say?
Geo: That’s what, at the beginning of every episode. At least that’s what I say.
I don’t know, you guys don’t say much[00:02:00]
joe: That’s what, at the beginning of every episode, at least that’s what I say. I don’t know. You guys don’t say much on the intro, so.
Geo: Yeah,
Nick: I just say it’s my name
Geo: Yeah, why is that? Why don’t we say anything on the intro?
joe: You guys didn’t take
Nick: I think we need
a re-
Geo: intro
to heart. We need to re-record that intro.
joe: I think Nick’s in the trailer. I don’t know who, if people actually listen to the podcast trailer, but we do have a trailer.
Geo: Oh, yeah. We should revisit that.
joe: Some things to talk about on there and when I went back over and doing it, things that we mentioned. One thing I didn’t mention, we were talking about studies and animal studies and things, but where research science is moving away and using something called organoids.
Geo: And
joe: And organoids are these kind of tiny self-organizing three-dimensional tissue cultures that are grown from the stem cells, right? So, in these cells, they can coax it to mimic kind of the complexity and functionality of the actual human organ they want to study. So they can make like little tiny, [00:03:00] in the order of millimeters brain, liver, lungs to kinda have a model to see how the organ functions and/or drugs, or how the drug would affect the model, how would it affect the organ or doing different things.
Right. So it’s a really cool system that’s been developed and being used now.
Geo: I’m trying to picture that because if you think about the brain- Right … it has all those different parts- Mm-hmm … and they all have different functions. So are they able to model that all in a little tiny-
joe: Or different parts- … of the brain,
Geo: Yeah. Okay. Different parts of the brain. So like, they’re only maybe looking at a certain section. Of the…
joe: right They’re only maybe looking
at a certain section.
Of the… Right. So-
Geo: so then they-
joe: Right. So your study is, it is specific, right? You can’t grow an entire organ and the reason is that the vasculature, and we talked about this in the episode, you have vasculature, you have other structures these the vasculature which brings blood, oxygenated blood in, deoxygenated blood out, to provide nutrients for the tissue.
[00:04:00] So if you get too big, you need the structure. So for these tiny organoids, you keep ’em small so that the nutrient bath they live in, you can actually provide nutrients for the tissue, and that’s how far it can penetrate
in-
Geo: many,
joe: many- … without the vasculature.
Geo: vasculature … if they’re little, like these organoids- Yeah, organoids
joe: Organoids from width of a hair to about five- Oh, okay … Millimeters.
Geo: Let’s say you’re studying… I guess it’s all different. Right. But how many cells would they typically have?
joe: Yeah. You’re probably talking…
Nick: you can count those?
joe: Well, you can estimate, right? So I’m guessing tens of thousands, maybe even millions of cells.
Geo: a hair, then it’s probably-
joe: even from just a hair then. Right. Right, and it
Geo: on
joe: on what
you’re studying, right? So I was gonna mention because what they did is on the Artemis II mission where they went up, they had taken organs on a chip. So they took cultured organoids on,
Geo: organoids on
joe: a little chip dish and took it up
into
Geo: [00:05:00] Not like potato chips
joe: Not like potato chip. Not like a potato chip.
Nick: That’s upsetting
joe: like
a business card sized little container,
Geo: Wow.
joe: and maybe flat. So it wasn’t very big, but you had these functioning kind of mimics of the organs on
Geo: in there.
joe: So you take that
Geo: up- And you could see how they-
joe: microgravity and things
like that- affect
the organ. So then they went up, they did their mission, and they brought these back down, and now scientists are taking this and doing their studies and review.
Geo: I’m just picturing that and how hard that… ’cause you see those pictures of the astronauts a- and everything floating around you. You can see them, “Oh no, I just lost my brain organoid.”
joe: Yeah.
Geo: flying across.” They pick
joe: on a chip, there it goes. Flying across.
Geo: flying across.”
joe: I’m, I think they’re not throwing it around.
That’s
Nick: you sure, Joe?
Geo: I mean- They’re doing…
Nick: it’s something they would do
joe: when
they’re
trying to get people excited about science, they’re probably doing this kind of stuff. Playing. Right, yes. But I think when they’re in there doing their experiments, they’re not… “Throw me the pipette across the [00:06:00] module.”
Geo: a microscope in space? I mean- That, I don’t know. I don’t- Because- I’m unsure … they really have- They could.
joe: could. They could have, a
Geo: very tight for space-
joe: things like that. So yeah, that’s, that’s probably why they’re bringing it back to Earth to do more studies.
But yeah, so it was really interesting. I didn’t mention in there, other uses, personalized medicine. The organoids can be tailored to the person, right? So they can use your stem cells to form your cells to form the organoid and then see how your organ would respond to this drug or something
Geo: you say something like that, specialized to the individual- Right, right
that just, for me, all I see is a giant dollar sign.
joe: Well, yes, that is true.
Geo: is that just mean the only, the people that have lots of money would be able to have- Well, yeah … customized
joe: you’re right because
right now-
Geo: we’re in a w- lot of people don’t e- their insurance won’t even pay for,
joe: know-
Geo: a [00:07:00] certain blood test, let alone I’m, I’m gonna be able to get a customized-
joe: Yeah, no personalized medicine
is exactly that, that, when you take medicines and then there’s some dose that you take, and they go, “Well, let’s start at five milligrams, see what happens, then 10 milligrams,” right?
Because this was tested- on an aggregate of-
Geo: that’s just hopefully a doctor doing their job … of people.
joe: also it’s not tailored to you specifically. So how your body’s gonna respond to that, the side effects that you’re gonna have, it’s unknown until you personally take the medicine.
So you’re right. So here you could have a case where they go, “Okay, let’s take some of your cells, let’s grow up a little organoid and we’re gonna see how this liver drug affects your cells. How does it absorb it? How does it process it? Is it as effective as the control group?” And then come
back and go,
Geo: you don’t have to suffer the side effects
joe: won’t have to suffer the side effects. Potentially, right. You could take it a step further and go, well, after you do that, you could go, “Well, [00:08:00] here’s other information we’ve learned, and so now we’ve used, let’s say, AI to make some custom drug based off the original drug we had. But we found that if we change this receptor,” remember this lock and key, we talked about that in the episode, “that, we change this a little bit, it fits into your, cellular locks a little better, and it’ll be more effective.”
Wow, look at that. So that’s a personalized medicine. It’s just for you. And someone else it may work, but it might not work as efficiently. So really really cool, and you’re right, that leads to some dystopic thinking there. But but yeah. But then you got disease modeling, and I said drug discovery and toxicity.
So those are the things that you use these organoids for. But really really cool because you get away from animal models, so you don’t have to do these experiments in mice or rats or chimps or the other animal models that we use. Sometimes you may have to because if you need to look
at the entire organ, but
Geo: And you use human cells.
joe: That’s right. Yep, exactly. That’s right. So it’s even more direct. But [00:09:00] so yeah. So that was thought I’d mention that. In the episode, Erin talked about medical research on human research and being paid,
and in
1965 Scorpion, he was paid $10,000. And she said, “Oh, what was that in today’s money?”
You can do the inflation kind of calculator. It came out to $106,000. So it was a lot of money for this test to be done. But so yeah, and then we started the episode about Spider-Man. Is he a chimera? And it was like, no, because he doesn’t really have… He, his DNA was mutated to create new spider genes per the lore of the comic. But it was really interesting, and I don’t wanna spoil it, but in Spider-Man Spider-Noir, the Amazon Prime series the way the- they were created was much more chimeric in nature, that they did actually have a fusion of the other animals’, the [00:10:00] spider’s cells in- integrated. And his powers were even a little more integrated.
He had actually, the webs were coming from out of him as so right.
Right, right. So it, it was interesting that
Geo: scenes that were really yeah.
joe: Right. And I know we talked in the last mini about how the Spider-Noir felt a little different than the Spider-Man that maybe we’re used to and familiar with, but, and but that was something I noticed.
We went through the episode, and I was like, “Oh, you know what?” Mm-hmm … that was a little
Nick: Unfortunately, I have yet to finish the Spider-Noir series.
joe: mm-hmm. I-
Nick: I know.
I’m shocked
Geo: I understand your-
joe: Yeah
Geo: Especially when you’ve read the comics and you know the stories, and then you, and then of course the adaptation. Right. And that always makes a difference.
And I had not read the comics. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I loved the series, but it was based on just the series for [00:11:00] me, so. Yeah.
joe: Yeah. So the other thing I was gonna say the other thing that we in the episode, you had referred to a mule as a Jenny
and,
Nick: about to bring that
joe: Oh, were you?
Nick: just about to bring up how I was
joe: Look at that, we’re
Geo: Jawn.
joe: Ah. It was interesting. And a listener commented, I wanna say on Spotify or think it was Spotify. Spotify.
Nick: it was on Spotify
joe: Yeah, and I had looked this up and so yeah, Jenny is a mature female donkey, and when a Jenny is bred with a male horse, a
Geo: stallion,
joe: stallion, the offspring is called
a hinny.
a hinny.
If you breed a male donkey, which is called a jack, with a female horse, which is a mare, the offspring then is a mule. So it’s they have all these
Geo: names for all these animals. That’s awesome, yeah.
joe: But Yeah,
so, a Jenny is a mature female donkey, and a jack is a m- mature male donkey, and then you have a male horse, sta- stallion, and then you have a female horse, the mare.
I was gonna say the [00:12:00] Italian stallion, but then I went, no, that’s Rocky. But I was like that’s… That’s a mare. Yeah.
Nick: One I don’t see us going down
Geo: Oh,
joe: No, we’re not.
Geo: not right now anyway. Not right now.
joe: right now. Maybe season some other… Season X. Yeah, and then there was some feedback about splicing. One of the questions in the newsletter that I had posed was if you could pick an animal to be fused with as a chimeran.
And Alex, he said the wolf, and he would become a werewolf, a real werewolf. And then we had some banter back and forth about using gene editing to get the best qualities of the werewolf, but not the, insatiable appetite and loss of, kind
Geo: Kinda, you can’t- Right … you can’t really have your cake and eat, and
joe: like we
said-
Geo: you really need to eat
joe: That’s right, yeah. it comes down to calories. So how many Big Macs?
Geo: I just, when you sa- talk about that, all I can picture is Jack Nicholson. Yeah.
joe: you
Nick: Jack Nicholson. Oh, wow
Geo: In The Wolf.
joe: all I can picture is Jack Nicholson. Yeah. In Wolf. In the Wolf. Yeah. Was it just Wolf, right? Just Wolf. Or was it The Wolf?
Geo: I think it was just Wolf. Yeah.
joe: You had a [00:13:00] medallion and
stuff,
Geo: did, I had a medallion ’cause I went to the opening night when that came out.
joe: Yeah.
Geo: don’t know wh- yeah, I don’t know where that is. I’ll have to find it.
joe: Alex also sent the link to Grand Theft Auto III, I believe. It was a wiki about the man in the trench coat. I guess there’s a whole fandom about some man in a trench coat who turns
out to be
a serial killer.
So that fits Nick’s theory-
Geo: we k- how well do we know Nick?
joe: I know. I don’t
know.
Nick: I’m not the one out here in trench coats unlike someone that
has openly said they wear
underwear
Geo: I
joe: I didn’t… I don’t know who that… I don’t wear a trench coat. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nick: Yeah, sure, Joe.
joe: Yeah, I was gonna then… Oh, go ahead. Go ahead
Nick: Do you know what kind of animal you’d be fused with, or did we say that on the show? I don’t we, did, did say it on the show. See, if you would’ve listened again
Wow.
joe: if you would’ve listened then So listen to episode 74-
Geo: Go listen to episode 74. No I, you know what, Nick? I was sitting [00:14:00] here going, “I can’t remember” Yeah.
joe: Yeah. You get, and also, I think I mentioned that in the newsletter, so if you read the newsletter, and-
Geo: New- I have to say, Joe, I really enjoy just r- looking and reading the newsletter. I think it’s really well done.
joe: Well, thank you. I’m getting a little bit of assistance on
Nick: Wait, we have a newsletter?
Geo: But yeah. Newsletter? All right. You guys go out,
joe: guys go out,
Geo: know, show notes.
joe: the show notes, but yeah, it comes be- as the episode’s released, you’ll get an email, and it has a digest of what we talked about in the episode.
Kind of-
Geo: like that-
joe: science terms …
Geo: Like that you break it down. Here are those things that you could use to impress your friends at a party.
joe: there, there’s the fun facts in there. Yeah … so
I’ll harvest those. A few, that’s a few. There’s probably many more, but- Yeah
just some really cool ones. But if you’re not subscribed, go subscribe, and then you can also see what we’re up to. You can kinda keep in touch with us, so yeah. Okay. So go subscribe to the newsletter on Substack.
Nick: See, that was such a good way to organically dive into that
[00:15:00] one.
joe: that’s right. Yeah.
Go, go support us, please.
Geo: do this
Nick: We don’t do this often. Sometimes we need to ask for some support.
Nice
joe: Yeah. Anything else before we move on from the episode?
Nick: No I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Actually, this whole series is just right up my
alley.
joe: good. Yep. We have one more. We’re gonna finish it out, part three with Alex Haynes. So that was that was a fun conversation about the influence of Spider-Man’s villains on Spider-Man himself and how we feel about Spider-Man becoming a villain. So that’s a little tease in there.
We
Geo: little tease of it. We kind of-
joe: went down that rabbit hole. But yeah, check it out. It’ll be out in a couple Wednesdays or
Nick: Yeah. And, uh, again, I think we have a lot of new listeners on this episode too, so it’s greatly appreciated to see everyone, finding us now and go… Hopefully everyone goes through our old episodes.
joe: definitely. And we have, we alternate between a full episode and then the mini here that we [00:16:00] do a little recap, and then we add the science holes, touching on some current science, and then we do the media that we’re digging and consuming and what we like about that to give you guys some long format, media that you can dig into and join what we’re doing.
So cool. Thanks.
Geo: All right.
joe: All right. Now we need a little jingle. Science holes. No.
Geo: for Science Holes. No.
joe: That’s so–
Nick: Science hole. Look at that hole, it’s a Science hole.
joe: All right, maybe not. Well, we’re gonna get there. We’re gonna have something figured out
for a little
Geo: Holes. But
joe: yeah. You guys, would… Does somebody wanna start? I’ve been talking for a while, like I do all the time,
Nick: I believe Georgia had something, right?
joe: don’t know. I was gonna say. Yes.
Geo: yeah … I did. So right now we’re having this I don’t… And I don’t even know, it, I don’t know what to call it. But it’s not like a pandemic. Oh, no.
joe: no. not
No, an outbreak or- Outbreak … endemic.
Endemic,
I think. En- that might be something. I’d [00:17:00] love to know
Oh, right. Yep. are those terms. But a lot of people are getting sick and the big thing that’s happening is explosive diarrhea. And I think you’ve, people feel bad for about 14 days. And to be honest, this has really been freaking me out because I went out to a festival, and then I got some tacos. And I had, cilantro and onions on my tacos, which why wouldn’t you? Then I remember, oh, they said cilantro and fresh herbs is one of the things you should avoid. So I’m eating this, and then in the middle of the night I’m waking up and I’m like, my stomach is upset. And I’m thinking, “Oh my God, I have this.”
Geo: And luckily I felt better by the next morning. But I guess I’d just like a little more science on it.
joe: Yeah, just some facts.
So it’s the cyclospora. It’s a single-celled [00:18:00] organism. It’s not a bacterium, but it’s actually a protozoan, so it’s in this other Kingdom . So you have Kingdoms of organisms like bacteria, fungi, planta, animal ,
Geo: and it’s a parasite. It is a parasite.
joe: a parasite, yep.
So it is in that
Geo: something a parasite, when it can only live if it’s on a host? Or-
joe: So it’s an organism that lives on or inside another organism. Gets its food at the expense of a host.
So we’re gonna give
Geo: just hearing that word parasite, and you said it’s a single cell. Single
joe: Single cell. So it’s a single-celled organism.
But
Geo: if you were to get sick, you have more than just
joe: you’re right. You have more than one…
Geo: cell. If you only had one little tiny single cell-
joe: only have one little tiny little thing no.
Geo: would be it … Then you’d just say, “Get out of here,” right?
joe: the organism itself, that it’s not multicellular.
So you know, something, you are multicellular. Right. So you exist as many cells, and that’s makes you. But this thing can exist as just one cell. So one cell can grow and form-
Geo: so, let’s say, you know how you have probiotics in your stomach? [00:19:00] Yes. Are those single cells? Those are bacteria,
joe: and many, most are probably single bacterium, yes. E. coli, salmonella, those are single cell organisms, but they’re bacteria.
This is a protozoan. So protozoans are eukaryotes, so like our cells. They have a nucleus. They have mitochondria. So they have a thick cell wall, these, so they’re a little harder to kill.
Right, and
then- So it lives in
Nick: Can this go to animals too or no?
joe: You mean the cyclospora itself? I think humans are the only known hosts.
Geo: And-
and it’s in 30 states now,
joe: and this is spread by fecal matter that contaminates food stuffs. And so the reason why, as you mentioned, some of these herbs, leafy kind of herbs that are affected, is because they’re somewhat harder to wash. So just gently washing them, you can’t get all of the material off- The, the- Off of the material, ’cause you got crevices that, that are there that kind of prevent that.
Or if you get a spring mix of vegetables, like washing it is a little [00:20:00] difficult to get all, every leaf of the salad mix clean. So that’s why the, in the fresh kind of leafy vegetables you’re having this problem. If you cook the food, so if you put the cilantro in a something and you cook it to 158 degrees-
Geo: yeah, but then that would be- Then, yeah
joe: Yeah, because now these have- Then yes,
Geo: be so good on your taco.
joe: If you do that’s, that kind of then will kill it. You said onions. Remember, onions have a skin on it, so most of the time you will peel the onion. Yeah.
You’re not eating the onion,
skin,
Geo: onion is as bad, but- No, that, that
joe: my thing. That it’s mostly just these leafy kind of
vegetables that you have.
Geo: the bag- Yeah … the bag salads are really- Salad mixes
joe: it’s hard to wash those, and you can’t get
the
Geo: basically for the last week, I have been like avoiding fresh vegetables just in general.
Yeah, that’s
joe: what I’m saying.
The, you can eat, most of the vegetables and stuff are good to eat. You don’t have to worry about it. And even if you get this, it, it’s- You know- It’s [00:21:00] unpleasant, but you, if you stay hydrated, you’re probably… If you’re in good-
Geo: And then that’s
joe: you’re going to,
Geo: kill you. It depends on who gets this how bad it affects you. But also, okay,
Nick: I’m gonna tell you guys
Geo: What’d you say?
joe: Yep
Nick: I said, “Well, shit, I’m gonna die, guys. I’ve been eating a lot of greens lately.”
joe: I, like I said, you’re probably okay, so
Geo: we have a garden that we haven’t harvest a lot yet. We’re still waiting for that. But if I go out and get the cabbage leaves and, wash them… Okay, so is this something
joe: that
Geo: is going through the water? So, you go out and you water your garden- Contamination
but is it, how is it getting on these plants? How is it getting on this produce?
Nick: On the field
joe: Yeah. It’s,
Geo: so- And then it,
And
then
joe: is it- So yeah, so what happens is that you’re getting-
Geo: to another [00:22:00] person?
joe: it cannot, it doesn’t move from person to person. It’s not like a norovirus or a stomach bug that you’re, like a viral or bacterial infection that does go from person to person, poor hand washing, then all of a sudden you get it, or a buffet line. This isn’t that. And so you’re right.
So it is in the water, but that’s fecal, it’s contaminated water with fecal matter. So agricultural water, field workers contaminate the water that they’re using for that. And so it always, it always goes back to farms. It traces to human sanitation breakdown.
So if there’s some sewage leak or some problem, then you have that. The water that we drink and the water we’re probably watering our plants with out in the gardens, they are treated
Geo: so is this something like-
and you water- … Like a recall? Like a lot of times you’ll get a thing and it
joe: They will recall the foods that- Right … potentially this happens with and if they’re monitoring properly. And then you asked em- endemic and pandemic, just to circle back. Endemics [00:23:00] usually are, localized. You can trace it, you can map it, you can predict it. Pandemic is like the scale changes where it’s more global and it’s no longer a local c- local kind of phenomenon, but it’s more global now.
So this year, maybe endemic, it’s 31 states or so. So you got, so it’s
Geo: something’s going on if it’s happening in that many.
joe: Well, our industrial food complex,
Geo: And people getting– And regulations going down.
joe: I know I’m
Geo: And people getting- … regulations and
joe: yes food regulation can be a problem or,
Geo: that relates to science, and science not getting paid for, so then people not finding out
okay
joe: So yeah, leafy stuff grown in your own garden, you’re probably good to go. You’re not gonna worry about anything. Go to local farms.
You know the farmers. You know what they’re doing. Probably good. But yeah, industrial farming complex that’s one of the problems. Especially if… And like you said, regulations are lax, anything like that. And yeah, things like this can happen, so.
Nick: [00:24:00] Which is always rough for everyone
joe: Rough for everyone.
It is, yep. And I didn’t really know a lot about this organism until I started looking it up a little bit.
Geo: up a little bit. So there you go.
Thank you for that science hole. Yep.
joe: yep. Hopefully. But don’t freak out. Again, just cook it. You’re okay.
Nick: Yeah, just learn to cook.
joe: You
Nick: always a good thing
joe: clean it, prepare it. But yeah
Nick: what about you, Joe? What do you got for us this week
joe: Yeah. So I had a couple things, and one was on CRISPR. So CRISPR always comes up. We’re gonna trying to plan an episode for season four. But one of the cool things, and I’ve talked about this, is the epigenetics. So epigenetics is this you have your DNA, which has instructions for genes to turn on, turn off to do different things, but these are chemical groups, methylation groups that sit on top of the DNA to actually have another level of control that is applied to the instructions of the DNA.
And these things can be [00:25:00] they’re hereditary, so they can be passed on. They can be induced by stress, by poor diet, by your environment. And so you can imagine that once you have an epigenetic change, that this change then will persist through generations. And so one of the things, in, in these epigenetics, they can turn things on, off, maybe things that’s supposed to be on, it turns it off.
So you… And this can lin- lead to health kind of consequences. And so what they’re doing, they’re saying, “Well, can we use CRISPR to modify the epigenetic coding that is applied to the DNA?” And so there was a study, couple research studies, company
companies, startup firms are coming out where they are developing therapies that specifically target the epigenetic markers.
So not changing the genes, where CRISPR cut and paste, but actually changing the chemical modifications that’s put on the [00:26:00] different genes. So really interesting research and kind of you can go in, you can treat things like, high cholesterol or rare muscular disorders.
These kind of companies are going after that are controlled, that are caused because of these kind of epigenetic patternings that are being applied,
so…
Really, so that was really interesting and tethers into the episode with some of the things we were talking about, genes turning on and off, and how would you make a Minotaur, I think, was one we kinda chatted about.
And so, And then the other one that was interesting, once again epigenetics and, so it was a paper, the gut bacteria have a genetic fail-safe. And essentially what happens, you have a population of bacteria, they’re all
individuals- Yeah
all single cell individuals.
Geo: But there’s a lot of them.
joe: But they want to hedge their, hedge their bets, right? So if the environment changes they wanna make sure that they are able to withstand that as a population, maybe not as an individual, which is really [00:27:00] interesting. And so some of the members
of this population will use epigenetics to turn on or turn off different genes so that if their environment changes, a antibiotic comes in or the environmental nutrients change, that even though you might wipe out much of the population, some of it may s- still live because it made these kind of epigenetic changes that it then can modify to actually persist then in the event that something like this happens.
A, a catastrophic environmental
Geo: me…
Basically that’s evolution, right?
joe: Well, kind of
You’re not mutating genes to change the gene product. You’re changing the modification on top of the gene product. So it’s a little different than evolution. You could- It
Geo: the one thing that I remember the moths in a certain area, they were like w- do you know what I’m talking about? Yeah. So yeah. They were, like, gray. England, during the- [00:28:00] Yeah
during the revolution,
joe: they yeah the moths were white, and then when you had the soot built up, the birds could eat the white moths ’cause they could see them pretty easily.
Geo: Were some gray ones or some- Then
joe: ones started. So there were gray ones, and this is that, the phenotype.
So you always had probably white and gray, let’s say, moths flying around. The white ones, just for whatever reason. So then you change their environment- Mm-hmm … and now the gray-colored moths had a selective advantage, and then the white ones were eaten at a higher rate, and then the gray ones could multiply
Geo: So then their genes were more-
joe: their genes were, now became more persistent in the population than the white ones. Maybe they, the white color ones didn’t go away because it wasn’t,
Geo: when- … selected against … when you were talking about what you were talking about, that’s what kind of came into my mind. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So,
joe: but yeah, so i- in that case, right, so these bacteria, it could be if there was an epigenetic change right there, where you were a white [00:29:00] moth, but then you changed, you got stressed, you saw your buddy get eaten. Then all of a sudden you go, “Oh, man, let me…”
You methylate then your de- your gene, and it goes gray.
Geo: I have to think this is probably thinking about this on way too simple terms or prac- but- Like you were saying, trauma or stress can cause these things, and you said that can cause certain genes or certain things to turn off.
So would, let’s say you’re in a program where it’s to reduce stress and you’re using meditation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then that meditation,
would
that be considered what you’re talking about?
joe: Yep. You
Geo: I mean-
joe: yeah. No, that would be, right.
Geo: a- That’s right … bigger practical thing, and then you’re talking about something on more of a cellular
joe: That’s right. Yep.
Geo: But that is, that really
joe: it. Yep. That’s right. Your body responds to that this peaceful environment. You can think of it, kids who grow up in, very [00:30:00] stable, quiet, neighborhoods versus kids who grow up next to an industrial factory.
Geo: Or dangerous or- right.
They’re gonna
joe: the stress, their environment will cause them to have… Their body’s gonna respond to that at a cellular level, and then you go, “Oh, why are these kids sicker?” Or why are they not
as healthy?”
Or, “Why can’t they concentrate as well?” Well, because their body made these changes to fit that environment, not fit this environment now that’s over here.
Yeah. So, yep. Mm-hmm. But yeah, so they’re trying to now, can you use tools to undo that, interesting.
Nick: That’s wild. I didn’t expect them to be able to do that
joe: Yeah, no, that field’s moving pretty fast and, they’re going after, taking these tools and,
Nick: I honestly feel like every time I’m just so shocked by what it can do
joe: Yep. So, but yeah. So that was a couple there and then the tether into
Geo: This
joe: this disease, infectious disease model that, that people were talking about the public [00:31:00] health systems and the 2026 World Cup that’s happening right now. But they were saying how that creates the perfect condition for infectious disease spread, right?
So you have all these people coming
together.
Geo: people in- People
joe: many people, yeah. People coming together and then migrating, right? ‘Cause you might go to a game in Kansas City, and then you travel to LA or Philadelphia, the sites, Miami. And so you get this mix where y- and then you go to Canada or Mexico, so you
have this kind of- Big mix. Right. So you could have stuff, you could have potentially-
Geo: eat the cilantro, guys.
joe: Like, “Don’t eat this lunch.” That’s right. Yeah. So they do the tabletop modeling. You might have heard when we had Charles Blue on talking about for planetary defense, but you can do the same thing for disease modeling. And so, potentially outbreaks of measles, influenza, mosquito-borne vi- viruses.
So you can have, maybe at the high end of risk could be things like Ebola, and actually, they actually would… They limited travel from countries where Ebola, the, this current Eb- Ebola outbreak. And [00:32:00] so they’re actually, denied or quarantined before they can come in because if, they get into these populations, you could have you could have a disaster.
A disease spread event. So-
Geo: But they let the team in.
Do they have to do a special test
joe: did contamina- they probably containment or
Nick: And like what they did during COVID time
joe: yep. I don’t know if their team was in. Sorry. I don’t… Do you know that?
Geo: No, I don’t.
joe: No. I
Geo: was speculating.
joe: not have had a team in. Not every country had a team in the World Cup. So, but yeah, so that was,
Geo: So that was,
joe: thought that was interesting and tethered into what you were talking about, the
Explosive diarrhea.
Nick: We all love toxic explosive diarrhea here at Rabbit Hole Research.
joe: I know. That’s it.
You gotta go.
Geo: a pleasant, it’s not a pleasant rabbit hole.
joe: It’s not a pleasant rattle. No, that was,
Nick: I’m pretty sure that’s gonna be our most popular mini just ’cause we talked about it. But
joe: Yeah, so those are a couple[00:33:00]
Nick: Very good. You guys wanna jump into what media we’ve been consuming?
joe: Yeah, let’s do it up. What are you,
Geo: Yeah
Nick: I think we’re calling this section our media hole
joe: The media yeah, we start naming-
Geo: The media holes.
joe: The media holes … all the media holes.
Geo: it the media
joe: What are we
wasting
Nick: look at media hole over there
joe: Yeah what long format-
Geo: Yeah, because- Unprocessed-
joe: media have you been enjoying?
Geo: w- the holes that I f- find myself falling into are the stupid scrolling on my phone thing
joe: Holes.
We wanna… No, everyone can do
Nick: The doom scrolls.
Geo: Yeah.
joe: It’s just like we try to get out of the doom
Yep. Like you eat food, you gotta have mix it up. You can have chips and ice cream. Good stuff, but you gotta have a well-balanced diet.
Geo: diet. That’s all I’ve been eating lately ’cause it’s not leafy green.
joe: Wash your vegetable. You can… There’s other vegetables you can eat. You don’t need the
Nick: Nope, Georgia’s out. She just wants [00:34:00] chips and
joe: yeah.
Geo: gonna
joe: I was gonna a- we shouldn’t mention it there, but berries too, like things like that, that have
nooks and crannies. Things like that. Right, yeah. That’s
Geo: are really- They’re
joe: hard to clean, so if you get splash on from the water, you get…
Okay. Either way. Or cook ’em.
Nick: if you do get Berries use baking soda. It’s always a good thing to,
Geo: to wash them with? Kitchen towel.
Nick: it’s a kitchen hack,
yeah. Nice t- Just let it soak for 15 minutes. In a, in a water, baking soda-
Yes. Yeah
Geo: May
Nick: yeah, that’s always a good thing to do with it. If you have littles, it helps kill a lot of the bacteria and stuff that’s on it.
joe: Yeah. But, you gotta remember that’s for bacteria. This here is a protist, the cyclospora. So it has a really thick- So that-
Geo: the baking soda won’t work
joe: right. So I thank you. That’s what makes this so difficult. People are treating it like it is a normal bacterium or kind of [00:35:00] cleaning it in normal food preparation.
Geo: it’s scary
but this isn’t, It’s a scary thing …
joe: This isn’t that. So you have these so like the vinegar, lemon juice even bleach might not be as effective- on these organisms. So- Bleach is
Geo: in bleach
joe: so yeah. So it is a,
Nick: you don’t like having your raspberries and bleach, Georgia? I love just drinking the bleach.
joe: Yeah. Yeah. And a b- and a baking soda is probably more, a little more for pesticide removal and things like that. I think folks use it- Yeah … For that. But yeah, for this it, it is
Nick: But you should be cleaning them, yes
joe: So you should clean, but you do have… It’s difficult because of the structure of the leaf or the berries, because they have like little grooves that- Right … the oocysts of this,
Geo: cyclospora
joe: parasite- can get
can get
Geo: and this thing is resistant to that.
joe: Yeah
it has a big cell wall that makes it hard for things to get in. That’s why it’s tough to kill. It’s like Steven Seagal, Hard to Kill. So,
On
Geo: on that note, let’s move it, let’s move into the Media Holes.
joe: [00:36:00] holes. I’m gonna change my title on this now.
Geo: Do you want me to go?
joe: Sure. Let’s do it up.
Geo: Let’s do it.
Nick: Yeah, go right ahead, Georgia
joe: and
Geo: this is actually a segue for a really nice plug that I can do. But
joe: but
Geo: my friend Jim and I are big fans of film noir, you might know if if you’ve listened to the podcast. And we have a calendar that will be our 2027 calendar, and it has lots of movies, noir facts.
And one of the movies that’s mentioned in there, I realized I haven’t watched this movie, and I’ve heard of it several times, so I thought, “I better watch that.” And it’s called, it’s a 1951
joe: movie called
Geo: Ace in the Hole. Have you guys heard of that?
And it stars a very-
Nick: No, I can’t say I have
Geo: we can’t hear that … a very young Kirk Douglas. And the funny thing is Ed Mu- Eddie Mueller, who’s the expert on noir, feels like it’s not a noir because a lot of it happens during the day. I don’t know. [00:37:00] So it could be more noir adjacent, but I’m telling you right now, you need to watch this movie. It is the starkest, most… It has this commentary of about media
joe: that
Geo: never seen before. It w- it’s just, it’s, it sticks with you. I… Okay, so basically, Kirk Douglas is this real cocky young guy, and he’s this journalist,
and
he d- doesn’t necessarily… And it’s really poignant right now because the whole idea is about truth and journalism and media, and he happens upon this small town.
Hunting for Native American artifacts, and this cave-in, and he’s down there under some [00:38:00] rocks and it’s how they deal with getting him out of there. And it becomes, a media circus?
That’s what happens, and
Nick: Yeah
Yeah
Geo: basically it’s how can we make money off of this person’s horrible situation. But you really just, it I recommend this movie. Highly recommend it. It’s not an uplifting movie by any means, but it makes such a great point about how we exploit people and things and how we get caught up in these.
And I just think about social media and media today,
it’s just
s- so relevant. Mm-hmm.
joe: Mm-hmm.
Geo: Yeah, so, so I highly recommend that. And then the other book I read, the Wolf Worm by T.
King- fisher. Yep. And
it kinda goes right with the parasite.
joe: That’s right, yep.
Yeah, The screw worm. Mm-hmm. It talks about
Geo: a parasitic [00:39:00] insect, and it’s set in like 1899. It’s from a woman’s point of view. She’s a scientific illustrator, and it really talks about naturalists and the study of nature and it’s, so I think it does actually have quite a bit of science in it too.
joe: Well, yeah, the screw worms, they’re flesh-eating insects. Yeah. It’s- worms, yep. Yeah.
Geo: Terrifying.
Nick: Oh
Yeah
those things are Yeah
Geo: So it is a horror book but so, so good. It’s so well-written. I love that So that’s
Nick: I- I’ll have to check that one out. That sounds really good
Geo: Yeah, I think you’d really like it
joe: Yeah, I think we mentioned it. It’s a little squirmy. It’ll get under your skin literally. Right. Well, figuratively hopefully, not literally, yes. Yes.
Yeah.
Nick: The screw worm will literally get under your skin.
Geo: Whoa
Nick: I hope
Geo: ho.
Nick: not[00:40:00]
joe: Oh. Very good
Nick: But hell yeah.
joe: Yep.
Nick: What about you, Joe?
joe: yeah, so I’ll just go two books. One’s fiction. I started listening to Pimp My Airship by Maurice Broaddus. It came out in 2023. It’s a alternate history tale kind of revolution and resistance steampunk Afro sci-fi adventure
story,
Geo: that you met?
joe: I did meet him, yep. I met him at Con Carolina.
Geo: And then I… And-
joe: and he lives in near India- Indianapolis, I believe. And this story is set in Indianapolis area, so it’s really interesting. So I’m about halfway through,
Geo: And I saw him at the ALA conference.
joe: that at the ALA. That’s right. Yep, that’s what you were saying.
Yep. Yeah.
Yep. So, and then the other book I’m reading is a nonfiction When Trees Testify: Science, Wisdom, History, and America’s Black Botanical Legacy by Beronda L. Montgomery. 20… And this came out [00:41:00] months ago.
And
so she is a , a PhD plant biologist, and explores the way in particular seven trees and cotton shrub are intertwined with Black history and culture.
And the idea is thinking about how the knowledge surrounding the trees, they shaped America’s kind of history from the beginning of, you know Our time here in America as Americans. And so, and
Nick: I didn’t even know about that
joe: trees live, some trees live hundreds of years.
Mm-hmm. So what, what memories do they have- Right … of some of the events-
Geo: And that really makes me think of Charles Chesnutt- Mm-hmm … and The Conjure Woman.
joe: right.
Geo: And he had a story about the trees on that one plantation- Mm-hmm
had been chopped down, and they, it was like they were using it as lumber. Mm-hmm. And like- Right
joe: That’s what happened. Mm-hmm. And they, and it
Geo: the, some of the spirits and, yeah. [00:42:00] Yeah.
joe: Yep. No, it was… it’s interesting ’cause some of it, plants, they convert they use CO2 that we exhale, and to use that to make sugars and f- for them in the process of photosynthesis, and then they expel plants’ oxygen that we can use, and we can breathe.
So it’s a, a- an interesting thing because people that are around, if a tree lives that long, then you could say if this person was around this tree, then some of their CO2 they exhaled could become part of this tree and their sugars and their bark that they use and make complex structures with those sugars.
So, yeah
Geo: the metaphors are- Yeah … just yeah.
joe: And then, I mentioned a children’s book where they were making Chimeras
Geo: cameras.
joe: like a higg, which is a horse pig that says oink-neigh.
It’s called- Oink-neigh here and a oink-neigh there
Geo: oink-neigh there
joe: Young MacDonald by David Milgrom. And so it’s a really fun book. It explores genetics in a very fun way by [00:43:00] reformulating the classic Old MacDonald jingle song. Yeah, it’s really fun. Young MacDonald. So okay. That’s it for me, my media hole.
What about you, Nick?
Nick: Oh yeah. Well, I have been playing an older game lately. Not all the way done with it, but a good chunk of the way. Watch Dogs 2.
It is about hackers and stuff, and the first one takes place in Chicago, the second one p- takes place in, I wanna say San Francisco.
And yeah,
it’s just a really cool version of what goes on with tech and the dangers of it.
Just ’cause, anything you could do online, it’s there for everyone, and it’s just like a… It’s a good analogy of what’s going on in, with the world and stuff. But been playing that. And oh, what’s the name of the show? Been watching an Apple TV show with Tatiana…
Do you know the, [00:44:00] what’s her name? The one who played She-Hulk
joe: know the, what’s her name? Mm-hmm. The Blade runner. Oh. Is this the one
Geo: Is this the one Maximum, Maximum-
Nick: Maximum Pleasure …
guaranteed.
Geo: I haven’t watched it, but I heard it was really good, and I know they’ve been really talking about how … ‘Cause I think Stephen King was recommending it
Nick: Yeah. I thoroughly have been enjoying that show.
Yeah, been watching that and just finished Widow’s Peak or Widow’s Bay?
Geo: Widows Bay. I lo- I love Widows Bay yeah.
joe: that was really
good.
Geo: was so good. I guess they came out with an extra episode. Did you hear about this? I haven’t loo- I haven’t looked at it. It’s not like a regular episode, but it’s it sounds like it’s almost like a collage of different things that ma- you know, just like the mood of Widows Bay.
It was supposed
joe: isn’t like the Netflix thing, the Stranger Things where it was like, oh, a new ending episode. No,
but I think
Geo: is a thing. I’ll have to
joe: this
really is a thing. I’ll have to look. Okay.
Nick: I hope
Geo: Because it
joe: was like- Yeah … ’cause it was
Nick: If it’s like that, I can’t watch it.
Geo: ’cause it was [00:45:00] like, “Hey, to hold you over until we come out with another season.” It’s like just the ambiance of Widows Bay.
joe: what they remember people remember with Stranger Things- Yeah … the finale, series finale came out, and then people, it was a
little disappointed- Some people
Geo: …flat … some people weren’t. I liked
joe: they said there was another version that was gonna drop, and they gave a date and a time, and then Netflix crashed because everyone logged in at that.
Yeah, so okay.
That’s
Geo: No I’m pretty sure this was… But you’re right. I don’t know if I really read about that on a very official-
Nick: reputable source
joe: Yeah. Right, right. Where was it at?
Geo: I’ll have to do some research. I
Nick: I am on Apple right now and I only see 10 episodes, nothing more than
Geo: oh my gosh. I might have been, I might have been… I thought of something else that I didn’t mention.
joe: mention.
Geo: also, this weekend, saw Obsession, and I have to say, I have to say, we don’t need to talk about this [00:46:00] movie because the billion other people on TikTok and Instagram talking about this movie, but it holds up to the hype.
Let me just say that. H- have you seen it,
joe: Mm-mm.
Nick: No, I have Not
Not yet. Girl, I don’t get to go to the movies.
I’m
Geo: I know.
Nick: I got a toddle.
Geo: I know. I’m just say- I’m just saying you know a lot of times when you hear this big hype and expectations, you go in and then, it’s hard to live up to that. No.
Nick: I do get that 100% ’cause a lot of movies that get super hyped for me, I’m not the biggest fan of.
Geo: Yeah, no.
Nick: Like
Geo: that does happen to me quite often, but this tr- stayed true to what people said. It’s intense. It’s d- and it’s very different. And I think it’s just so exciting that a 26-year-old director is making this movie. He made it for a million dollars,
Nick: Oh, [00:47:00] yeah.
Geo: and it’s… I
Nick: I would highly recommend checking out his comedy stuff too.
Geo: I don’t even know if this is probably, this number probably isn’t even accurate anymore, but the last thing I saw it wa- made 200
200
times its budget. 200 times. So you don’t have to have a huge budget. You know what I mean? You can be young. You can be innovative. And I think it’s
Nick: definitely showing that, yeah the indie space has what it takes for it. You don’t have to have a huge budget for horror movies.
Geo: No,
Nick: movies just need to be good.
Geo: Oh my God.
Nick: it
Geo: That’s … And the acting in this movie, if there aren’t some awards come out of that, that’ll be like a shame ’cause that … Ugh. Anyway, you gotta see it
Nick: on the opposite end of that spectrum, I watched a bad horror movie at home. What I did watch [00:48:00] the Return to Silent Hill, and was a rough watch. I watched it all. I thought for a minute that they were doing some stuff intentionally, like everything just had a video game look, but it was just… I’m pretty sure it was just supposed to be bad CGI. It’s… But it felt like it was early 2000s, and
Geo: ‘Cause that was a video game, right?
Nick: Yes. And this was an adaptation of Silent Hill 2, and yeah, it stuck very true to the game for the most part.
Geo: So does that mean
Nick: it was a rough movie
joe: But the movie-
Geo: Would you recommend it? Or
Nick: I’d recommend the video game, which they had a re-release of that come out last year, I believe. Yeah, that sounds right. And that was a fun replay. But the movie is a rough recommend, recommendation. Georgia, [00:49:00] maybe you guys should watch it next week and let me know about it.
See what you
joe: Georgia, maybe you guys should watch it next week and let me know about it See what happens. Yeah, why don’t we gonna watch bad
movies? There’s a lot of good yeah. I’ll
Geo: see if I can pencil that in
joe: Yep
Nick: Yeah. Y- you got some time. Don’t worry. And then one other thing I’d like to bring up is that someone on our Discord had messaged me, and they sent me some of their artwork, and I just wanted to give them a little shout-out.
joe: Lorene Doodles.
Nick: Doodles. Yeah, they’ve had some really cool stuff and we’re about supporting the small artists and shit like that.
So,
Geo: so maybe we
Nick: just your mom
joe: can
Geo: we put a link in the,
joe: the, in our
Geo: in our
Nick: yeah, sure. If I remember to send Joe it tonight, yeah.
joe: Yes. Yeah, please send it. We’ll get it, if not this one, the next newsletter. Every Wednesday, a newsletter goes out, so we’ll, we can get it into one. Mm-hmm. Yay. Mm-hmm. Very nice
Nick: you just go check it out. Tell them that we sent you over here
joe: Yep. [00:50:00] Cool
Nick: Got anything else for us, Joe?
joe: I think that’s that might be it. I was gonna mention I was at a con, the SHore Leave 46 Con in Lancaster, PA.
Geo: PA.
joe: And one of the things was I went to a panel, it was a adaptation of Fallout. And so it was a really interesting discussion, and the thing came up about the video game, and they’re like, “Oh, Joe, you gotta play this v- you gotta play it.”
So I
Nick: You should
joe: Which I’m surprised, ’cause it came out in ’97, and that was
Geo: you might actually play a- I was playing a
joe: video games, especially, on the Doom, the, that kind of descent right in that timeframe. So it’s really interesting that this one this must have fallen right into where that gap between where I was playing a lot and not playing a lot.
‘Cause I started, I was in, grad school at this particular time. So yeah, very interesting.
Nick: Yeah, you should definitely check out the game
joe: Yep. But it was a good conversation. I really enjoyed it. And but yeah, it was a good con. I gave a talk about the electron microscopy of zombies and [00:51:00] cells. Well received. Maybe I gotta post some of that on there, but yeah.
Cool. Yeah, but that’s it for me.
Geo: Whoa. I know. We went down quite a few holes.
joe: It’s a mini. It’s gonna be
Nick: We go down all the
holes
joe: What- It’s gonna be the
Geo: cha- The maxi We’re gonna have to change- Maxi
joe: the maxi.
Geo: We’re gonna have to change
Nick: the Maxi Mini?
joe: Yeah.
Geo: have to change the name of
Nick: The Maxi Mini Hole. Yeah.
joe: I know. The mini, mini squared hole.
But yeah, I think that’s that’s it. Thanks for listening. Thanks for supporting.
Nick: And don’t forget to tell all your friends, and yeah,
uh, give us a
joe: you got
Nick: a good old high five sometime.
joe: You got a question or something you want us to look into, let us know.
Geo: hole you’d like to go down
joe: it. It might not come in the next episode, but we can, put our heads together and figure it out. But yeah, thank
Nick: We do try to get to everyone’s messages and stuff.
joe: You
got
Nick: just takes time because we are humans with other things that we do.
joe: We got [00:52:00] stuffs. But on that note, you got me, Joe. You got me.
Nick: got
joe: We got Nick. We’ve got Georgia
Nick: And we went down some mini hole
joe: right. So stay safe out there, stay curious and we love y’all
Nick: Bye-byeee
