Peter Parker is one bad day away from most of his villains. We dig into the science, the grief, and the philosophy of why he chose differently.

With Guest Alex Hanes (@Hanes4Heros)

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Episode 76 Transcript

In the 76th episode of Rabbit Hole of Research, from the Basement Studio, Joe and Nick are joined by Alex Hanes of the YouTube channel Hanes for Heroes(@Hanes4Heros) for the conclusion of their three-part Spider-Man villain series, and this one gets personal. Bring some tissues!

The crew digs into what it actually means to be a hero/villain, neurologically, philosophically, and biologically. They explore moral injury and the difference between guilt and shame. Why Spider-Sense might be anxiety on overdrive, and how Peter’s pattern of seeking father figures keeps leading him straight to his greatest enemies, and the crew speculates on what might be coming with Dr. Doom in the MCU.

They debate whether Spider-Man could ever cross the line into villainy, examine Venom and Carnage as the darkest possible mirrors of Peter Parker, and ponder the question Alan Moore spent his career answering: would unchecked power produce heroes?

Plus Joe wows the crew with the science of spider silk, spider-goat milk, and how many calories it would actually take to be Spider-Man. The crew ends discussing which version of Spidey walks out of a cage match.

Check Out Alex’s YouTube Channel:

Hanes4Heros

Georgia and Jim’s Touch of Noir 2027 Wall Calendar —

12 months of all-original art by Jim and Georgia; orders are open now, with mailing expected in September

Check out what the RHR crew is creating:

Joe:

• Named by the Guild Literary Complex as one of the 35 Writers to Watch!
• Red Line: Chicago Horror Stories Anthology featuring a story by Joe!
• Joe’s Sci-fi physiological thriller Novel: Will You Still Love Me If I Become Someone Else?
• Joe’s Rom-Com Novella: Tomorrow May Be Too Late
• Essay by Joe: From Beyond Press: Specific Knowledge: Jotham Austin, II, PhD on Transformations in Fiction

Future Events to Hang with the Crew:

Podcast Cross-Appearances

• Joe on GoIndieNow: 21grams with Joe Compton talking about villains.
• RHR Crew on This Podcast Will Change Your Life with Ben Tanzer

Events & Conventions:

• Dragon Con — Atlanta, GA (September 3-7, 2026) – Joe attending as Professional

It’s Science for Weirdos

Want to support the show? Tell your friends. Follow us on social media, Discord, share the podcast, and let us know what topics you are excited about. Leave a Comment. And for email alerts sign-up for the Substack newsletter and never miss an episode, exciting updates or the bonus images we talk about on the episodes. 

We discussed these questions on the episode and now want to Hear From You (leave a comment):

• If you woke up tomorrow with Spider-Man’s powers, what would you actually do: hero, villain, or something in between?
• Peter Parker is one bad day away from most of his villains. Do you buy that, or is there something in his character that would always pull him back?
• Who is your favorite Spider-Man villain, and what does that say about what you find most compelling in a good antagonist?

Drop your thoughts in the comments. We read them all, and your ideas often shape future episodes.

Leave a comment

Future Episodes

Three Part Spider-Man Series continues to get ready for the new MCU Spider-Man: Brand New Day

• Episode 78 – Briar East Woods – Urban DeforestationGuest: Anne Sedlacek
• Episode 80: Magic: the Power and Cost of Magic SystemsGuest: B.L.Mostyn
• Episode 82: Climate Change and Data CentersGuest: David Pincus, PhD

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Show Notes & Fun facts 

Stuff crew said they’d put in shownotes

• Spider-Goat Silk:
  • What happened to those GM spider goats with the silky milk? https://agfundernews.com/what-happened-to-those-gm-spider-goats-with-the-silky-milk
  • Utah State University lab (Dr. Randy Lewis): https://www.upr.org/utah-news/2022-04-18/famous-spider-silk-lab-redirects-focus-to-new-biomaterials
  • Good visual explainer video: https://aeon.co/videos/spidergoats-to-the-rescue-how-to-make-silk-from-milk-with-genetic-engineering

Comics mentioned:

• Spider-Men — Peter Parker and Miles Morales crossover written by Brian Michael Bendis with art by Sara Pichelli
• Superior Spider-Man — Doc Ock takes over Peter’s body
• Marvel Zombies
• Spider-Verse — various issues including Reed Richards storyline
• Spider-Carnage
• Venomized Spider-Man
• Ghost-Spider — Gwen Stacy’s universe
• Injustice — Superman kills the Joker storyline
• Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man — animated series (2025, Disney +)

Films and TV mentioned:

• Spider-Man trilogy — Tobey Maguire
• Spider-Man: MCU No Way Home
• Spider-Man: MCU Homecoming / Far From Home
• Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
• Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse
• Venom films
• Avengers: Infinity War / Endgame
• The Spider Within — Miles Morales short film (YouTube)
• Daredevil: Born Again — Season 2 referenced
• Luke Cage — Netflix series Season 1 and 2
• Spider-Noir
• Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man — animated series

Video games mentioned:

• Spider-Man — PS4
• Spider-Man 2099

Fun Facts to Impress Your Friends With:

1. Spider silk is stronger than steel — and we’ve engineered goats to produce it.Spider dragline silk is stronger than high-grade steel by weight and far more elastic. Because spiders are too territorial to farm, researchers spliced silk protein genes into goats so the proteins are expressed in their milk, which can then be extracted and spun into fiber. The company even put the goats (Sugar and Spice) on public display, and the public did not respond well.
2. Orb weaver spiders eat their own web every day. Not because they’re hungry — because silk is metabolically expensive to produce. They consume the entire web, reclaim the proteins, and rebuild it fresh the next day. They are running a materials recycling operation in real time, with no waste. Spider-Man leaving his webs all over Manhattan would be, biologically speaking, an absolute disaster for his budget.
3. A human-sized creature physically cannot wall crawl — the math breaks.Geckos and spiders use surface adhesion to climb, but adhesion force scales with surface area while body weight scales with volume. Double the size of a gecko and it can no longer support itself on a wall. For a human to wall crawl using the same mechanism, adhesive pads would need to cover roughly 40% of total body surface. DARPA actually built gecko-inspired climbing gloves and got a human up a glass building, but it required enormous specialized pads and was exhaustingly slow.
4. Spider-Sense has a real neurological analogue. The human brain has a subcortical threat detection pathway, the pulvinar pathway, that processes threatening stimuli faster than conscious awareness. You flinch before you “see” the thing. Studies show humans detect spiders and angry faces faster than neutral stimuli even under masking conditions. Spider-Sense may be less fantasy and more a hypothetically amplified version of something already running in your brain.
5. Being Spider-Man would require an extraordinary number of calories.Factoring in web production, the metabolic cost of a hyper-active healing factor, sustained fast-twitch muscle activity, and a nervous system running on permanent high alert, a conservative estimate puts Spider-Man’s daily caloric need somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 calories on an active patrol day. For context, Tour de France cyclists burn around 8,000 to 9,000 calories a day. Peter’s bodega sandwich habit is not going to cut it.

Episode Highlights

01:11:25 Guest Plug and Wrap — Alex plugs Hanes for Heroes, his Superhero Pride Month challenge, and his mission to get more people loud in movie theaters for superhero films. Joe floats a future DC episode. Nick throws a sticker on it.

00:00 Basement Studio Roll Call — Joe holds down the Basement Studio solo while Nick joins via Zoom, and guest Alex Hanes of Hanes for Heroes checks in ready to talk Spider-Man.

01:17 Spider Villain Series Setup — Joe sets up the third and final chapter of the Spider-Man villain series, focused on what Peter’s enemies reveal about him as a hero.

01:43 Power and Responsibility Monologue — Joe opens with the question underneath all the web-slinging and one-liners: what actually makes someone good when the alternative is right there and nobody could stop you?

03:23 Why Go Villain — Nick immediately declares he’s going straight villain, Poison Ivy gets dragged into the conversation, and the crew debates the fine line between villain and anti-hero.

05:52 Trauma and Moral Injury — The crew unpacks how grief and moral injury — not just superpowers — shaped who Peter Parker became, and whether Uncle Ben’s death was the cause or just the accelerant.

08:16 Spider-Sense Anxiety — Nick brings up the Miles Morales short film The Spider Within and the crew lands on a uncomfortable idea: Spider-Sense may just be anxiety on overdrive with nowhere to go.

13:14 Villains as Mirrors — Nick makes the case that each villain reveals a different part of Peter — fear, grief, ambition, rage — and that the rogues gallery is essentially a map of everything Peter could have become.

13:54 Father Figures and Betrayal — Joe pulls the thread on Peter’s pattern of clinging to brilliant older male mentors who inevitably become his greatest enemies — and what that says about the wound left by his parents and Uncle Ben.

18:29 MCU Mentors and Doom — The crew traces the father figure pattern through Iron Man and Mysterio and speculates on what a Spider-Man and Dr. Doom dynamic in the MCU could mean — tissues may be required.

22:13 Venom Suit Dark Path — Alex makes the case that Venom is the most complete mirror in the rogues gallery — Spider-Man with the moral injury removed — and the crew debates what Peter liked about the suit that he won’t admit.

26:21 Multiverse Evil Spider-Men — Spider-Carnage, Venomized Spider-Man, Marvel Zombies, and the Peter Lizard all get their moment as the crew asks why there aren’t more openly villainous Spider-Men in the multiverse.

30:47 Holding Back the Power — Joe raises the uncomfortable point that Spider-Man could end most of his villains’ careers permanently if he just took the filter off — and the crew debates whether holding back is heroism or habit.

36:24 Crossing the No Kill Line — Alex uses the Injustice Superman arc to map out exactly how the slippery slope works — and why crossing the line once means there is no line anymore.

39:10 Spider-Man Goes Too Far — The crew examines the Spider-Verse comic where Peter uses Reed Richards as a human bridge in agonizing pain to save a city — and whether the ends justifying the means makes you a villain.

39:56 Where To Draw The Line — Could Spider-Man have a villain rating system? Four out of five villain stars and you get a pass. Five out of five and you’re done. The crew takes this more seriously than expected.

40:25 Crime Leaves New York — Alex points out the obvious: every hero is in New York. Why is there still crime there? The crew agrees criminals should just move to Albany.

42:10 Web Fluid Science — Joe breaks down the real physics and volume problem with Peter’s web fluid — liters per swing, hundreds of cartridges per patrol, and why synthetic web fluid is actually the most scientifically plausible part of his entire character.

43:10 Goat Spider Silk — Joe explains the spider-goat milk experiment, Dr. Randy Lewis, the original company going bankrupt, Sugar and Spice, and why the public display of the goats was a catastrophic PR decision.

47:05 Webs Need Calories — Alex connects web production to metabolic cost, Joe brings in the healing factor and Spider-Sense anxiety burn, and the crew lands on a number somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 calories a day.

50:26 Spidey Meal Debate — Aunt May’s wheatcakes, bodega sandwiches, and pizza by the pie — the crew debates Spider-Man’s go-to meal and whether he could even finish eating before Scorpion comes rolling down the street.

53:57 If We Had Powers — Joe would capitalize and retire. Nick goes full Robin Hood villain and knows it. Alex would help his community quietly and avoid confrontation. Nobody goes full hero unprompted.

57:27 Villainy and Escalation — Nick’s Robin Hood plan gets stress-tested and collapses almost immediately into the exact escalation cycle that creates supervillains — and he’s fine with it.

01:00:21 Favorite Spider-Man Villains — Joe picks Doc Ock, Nick goes Mysterio and Black Cat, Alex goes Carnage and is still upset about the second Venom movie.

01:06:24 Strongest Spider-Man Ranked — Miles versus Tom Holland in a cage match of powers, sacrifice, and father figure energy, with the crew ultimately split and Spider-Man winning regardless.

“Stay curious, stay safe… Love Y’all!”

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Transcript

joe: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to the Rabbit Hole of Research down here in the basement studio, the very lonely basement studio. It’s it’s just me down here holding it down. This is Joe, if you didn’t know that already.

Nick: You got neck

joe: Nick. We’ve got Nick coming to us on Zoom, couldn’t be in the

Nick: Having Joe think he’s going crazy in the studio alone,

obviously.

joe: I am.

Georgia may or may not join us. She had to work a little late this episode. The recording had to get moved a couple times. During one of the storms that came through the Midwest we actually lost power in the Basement Studio, so we couldn’t, I was gonna, I was gonna go for it, candlelight, battery power.

I was ready to go, but everyone else you know, I think it would’ve worked. Yeah. So and yeah, we have our guests here joining us

Alex: Hey, my name’s Alex Haynes. I’m super excited to be here. I was know- heard

about you guys through a mutual friend of ours [00:01:00] who’s

also named Alex Oh, nice. So he’s cool. And said he wanted to talk about Spider-Man, and, you know, that’s just my bag, so I’m really excited for this.

Nick: Hell yeah.

joe: Talking about Spider-Man and, you know, that’s just my bag. Hell yeah. Yeah, definitely. You got the Spider-Man shirt on there. I mean, you’re ready to go. Yeah, and this is we’ve been following along with the show. This is part three of our Spider-Man villain series. And this episode kinda rounding out towards the end is what does his villains reveal about him and just overall Spider-Man as a hero.

I’m sure we’ll touch into his powers his everything.

Nick: you got a monologue? Yeah

joe: I’ve got that, so.

Nick: All right, Joe, go for it.

I’m not,

gonna give gonna let me do it?

joe: Let’s hear it. for a scrappy, friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, he has one of the most diverse collection of enemies in comics, and it’s not because of their mutations, technology, political savviness, or handwavium powers that makes them memorable.

It’s the fact that almost [00:02:00] all of them mirror aspects of him. Reckless scientists who are reckless with lab safety, experimenting without thinking about consequences, personal losses, grief driving their reactions, powers that they thought would make things right but weren’t ready for the responsibility.

Peter Parker is one bad day away from most of his villains, separated by one different choice at one different moment, which keeps bringing the stories back to the same question underneath all the teenage angst, web-slinging, and snappy one-liners. What actually makes someone good? Not law-abiding, but superhero, sacrifice everything good, especially when the alternative is right there and nobody can stop you from obtaining your wildest desires.

Everyone knows the line, “With great power comes great responsibility.” We’ve heard it and we’ve said it so many times that we probably have stopped thinking about what it means. It isn’t saying power makes you responsible. It’s saying power requires you to choose it every single time [00:03:00] against every other option available to you.

So if you woke up tomorrow stronger, faster, essentially beyond consequence, what would you do? Most people say the right thing, and they would do good. But would they? Or would you be more like an Alan Moore superhero, where unchecked power doesn’t produce heroes? It would merely hold a mirror up to our truest selves, and what would you see?

Nick: We already know my answer, guys. I go straight villain. It happens. It’s gonna

be A slippery slope of me thinking I’m doing something right and then all hell breaks loose.

joe: Yeah.

Alex: No why villain? Why villain? Just to s- just to-

Nick: well ’cause… All right.

So, I’m gonna go ahead and go slip into the DC verse right now. You got Poison Ivy, who i- they classify as an eco-terrorist.

She’s doing right by the plants. She’s just trying to restore it. Mm-hmm. But she gets labeled a villain. So when you’re doing things that [00:04:00] aren’t necessarily in line with good neutral, you tend to fall more into evil

joe: But I would consider her a anti-hero, right?

Where you’re- Anti-hero

Nick: is not Considered a hero still.

joe: I think you are. That’s part of

Nick: It’s part of the name,

anti-hero.

joe: right, right. But I mean, you’re still a hero, right? It’s kind of this, it’s a weird,

Nick: Yeah. You,

joe: of these weird phrasings that we use.

But technically you have to be a hero level first, and then you’re just off a little bit. It’s not a 180. I don’t think that’s the true it’s you’re maybe 35 degrees off, if we’re trying to

Nick: Yeah, like,

joe: you know. Like a Catholic.

Alex: good.

Nick: Yes. I’m very much chaotic neutral. Like-

joe: Yeah, there you go

Alex: Or the, Yeah … you also gotta consider, like, what is viewed as what’s considered good in that universe. So like with, in, you know, since we’re bringing up Poison Ivy, like in her case, she’s going after billionaires, [00:05:00] people that are actively destroying the planet. But also in the process of going after them, she’s also putting innocent people

in danger. Yeah. So it’s just like, like in the long run, what she’s doing is helpful, but like we’re gonna need you to

Tighten it up just a little bit, Poison Ivy. I feel like that’s more Batman’s issue with her. It’s just like, “Hey I get it, but like y-

Nick: Is it

Alex: though?

there’s this woman pushing her baby in the-

Nick: He’s a billionaire man. Like he, she’s gonna go after him eventually.

joe: And I think both of these characters, Poison Ivy, Batman, and Spider-Man, let’s pull it back to our topic of, our spotlight, our topic. I know we try to give… We don’t give DC a lot of love, but,

Nick: It’s the only time I give DC love. It’s right now in

the middle of a Spider-Man series

joe: the Spider-Man series. But grief and trauma was the underlying factor in, you

know, kind of what pushed these people on their path. You know? [00:06:00] If you go back to origin stories, they are all mixed up. And it, I guess it depends on which origin story,

Nick: 100%. it’s not necessarily Spider-Man’s power came from, the traumatic event, but it led to who he was, I think.

joe: That was a key component in him becoming who he was. So, right?

Alex: Yeah, absolutely. It’s definitely just that idea where he’s like, “I had the power to do something, and because I didn’t,

This led to my uncle being murdered,” or this leads to bad things happening. So this is like, I honestly feel bad for Spider-Man, ’cause just the trauma of that situation forces him to put everything on his

shoulders, like even at the expense of his own life.

‘Cause, you know, when you think of like great power comes great responsibility, that, that

can be not just like using your literal power for good, but it’s also like taking responsibility for your own life, you know? like looking out for his, for like making sure he’s doing well in [00:07:00] school, taking, help taking– care of his aunt.

But he doesn’t. But he doesn’t. But he doesn’t.

Nick: 100%

Alex: of the time. And it’s just that trauma of like- He puts- … “No, I gotta stop criminals or someone’s gonna die.” And I’m like, “No, boo-boo, I love you. Let me give you a hug. It’s okay.

joe: Yeah.

Alex: You don’t have to.”

joe: And I think that gets at his it’s a moral injury, so it’s almost different than, like, a post-traumatic stress kind of disorder. This grief and then replaying in your head what you would’ve done, how you could’ve done something different, and I think that’s, there’s some kind of guilt, “I did something bad,” and shame, “I am bad.”

You know, I think he walks that line, and he stays in, guilt mode, and I think

Nick: Yeah, he walks through and

joe: about. Yep.

Nick: constantly, like, in the, “Oh, I hear sirens. I gotta go.”

Like, what, the,

I wanna say two years ago they did a series called Spider-Men. It was Peter and Miles, and they made it an active routine to make it Wednesdays a day to go to this coffee shop [00:08:00] and get coffee, and they’re trying so hard to not, do Spider-Man business that day. And, something happens constantly, and it’s like that place became a focal point of someone else getting powers and them having to help figure out how to control it for them. Like-

joe: And I, and I wonder one of the things is, you know, and we might get into a little bit of the handwavium and science-y stuff i- throughout this episode, but, I think that his neurological kind of pathways had to be rewired. And so as part of that rewiring, is he just stuck in, a hyperactive grief state?

So, like, where normal people may process it and they go through their stages and, they would eventually come out of it. Is it because he has these kind of hyper-aware powers, a Spidey Sense, all this is probably tethered into that? Is he now just a loop, you know, this crazy feedback loop of, hyper-grief,

Nick: the s- his Spidey sense actually leads into anxiety. Into the [00:09:00] Spider-Verse did a mini film that was released in overseas and it came to YouTube two years ago or so. I don’t know why everything I know right now is two years ago. But it was Miles dealing with his spider sense being over-driven, and he was just having this super anxious,

like it was anxiety on overdrive.

And seeing that, I mean, this whole conversation’s just gonna be about mental health, I guarantee it. ‘Cause-

Mm-hmm … like if we’re looking at th- them it comes down to them having an overdrive on anxiety and it’s just being that self-aware

joe: Yeah and that grief and anxiety are really intertwined, right? major loss disrupts your whole sense of safety leading to panic attacks, racing thoughts, constant fear and so you, you have this kind of situation, right? I mean, that tethers, and Alex Lee, you wanna jump in [00:10:00] here?

Alex: Yeah. A- and I think, you know, what’s real- what I really like about thi- this point is, A, at the end of the day, though, like, with all this anxiety, all this trauma, all this guilt that Spider-Man’s facing deep down it shows, like, why exactly he’s a hero, that he truly is a good person. ‘Cause I feel

like if, even if he, let’s say Uncle Ben didn’t die. If Uncle Ben didn’t die, would he be the same Spider-Man that he is? I think he still would be ’cause deep down, like,

’cause his reaction to that trauma was to do good instead of

like,

“Oh no, I’m gonna go get revenge on criminals instead.” you know? So I feel like if h- if Uncle Ben

hadn’t have died, if he hadn’t experienced, like,

that severe guilt. It might have took him

longer to get to that point. He, you know,

he’s still a teenager, still,

developmentally selfish, like he’s trying to figure out his life.

But I feel

like-

he eventually would get there on that [00:11:00] good side. So I think that’s what separates

Spider-Man from his villains. Like when they had that moment, that fork in the road, at the end of the day he chose to be good, whereas most of his villains, some of them can’t control it, but most of them

joe: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex: go the opposite route

joe: Goes off with that. And I wonder, because we start at Uncle Ben, but we could take it a step back and talk about the, that loss of his parents, right? Because they were tragically killed or we assume they’re- yeah

Nick: yeah. It’s That’s right. There’s, there are lines.

depends. It, it, It’s

a toss-up really. Like, whatever they decide- is what’s gonna

happen.

joe: that’s almost more traumatic, right? Because if you’re raised with this idea and that’s some sense of goodness, right? Your parents were doing something good.

They died, and then you gave up a chance to save your uncle potentially, that, that’d eat at you. Like, “Oh, what would my parents think? What would this…” You know, now you could compound that with the Uncle Ben, and then you move forward into a good state. So what happens [00:12:00] then, and , there probably is a line, a universe line like this, but what happens when, if his parents do show back up?

That just has to throw him and probably wreck him mentally if all of a sudden it’s like, “Oh, guess what? Your parents, they’ve been lying to you, this whole time, and, you know, they were doing their shady stuff and just didn’t wanna involve you,” right? I mean, that, that’s kind of,

Nick: I wanna say that’s the storyline for a few different ones, where they were like, got wrapped up into some bad stuff and they’re like, “Yeah, we-“

Alex: Like weren’t they Hydra agents in one

Nick: storyline? Yes, I think that was it.

Or what, one of them I think they were

working for Osborn, right? The Weeping. Oh, yeah. I think that was… I feel like Osborn was wrapped in one, and it was just like a, such a mind flip.

joe: Right, right, right, right

Nick: And just to pedal back real quick, the

short film I was talking about is The Spider Within.

joe: Mm-hmm.

Nick: Highly recommend- I remember that … checking that out. I remember

Alex: that one. Yes. I that, that [00:13:00] was… That made me cry. I felt bad for Miles.

Nick: Oh, 100%. Like it- But I was right. It came to YouTube two years ago.

joe: Two

Alex: Two

Nick: years huh? I was so spot on. I’m so happy about that. But like,

even his villains definitely do say a lot about Spider-Man as a character. Like, with each one we see a different part of Peter come through. Like, with the Green Goblin, you see so much fear come through with him.

Right

It’s one that hits him to the core, and that’s why they use Willem Dafoe

perfectly for it, introducing to the Tobey Maguire verse, and then bringing Dafoe back, showing that fear again- as he takes out Aunt May. It was just like

You felt the rage that Peter felt.

joe: Yeah. And well, go

Nick: Go ahead, Joe.

joe: No, I was just gonna say you also, and I loop back to parents because I think also Spider-Man, he [00:14:00] falls into the trap, Peter, of looking for a father figure, right? So a lot of the times he gets really close to his, the villain or soon to be villain because they also have mental issues.

We- we’re talking about, , Osborn. He is unstable, split personality, but Peter being young, Alex you brought it up, being young, you attach onto that. You look past those things. You look at the genius. You look at kind of success. You look at, oh, this is the person I wanna be, and he’s looking for that role model.

Both of his male, closest male role models have been, tragically lost, right? And so you go, and then you cling on to somebody, and then all of a sudden, “Aha, I’m actually your nemesis.”

Nick: like that happens so much more often than we would think. Because

it’s like, “Oh, my father

figure betrayed

joe: Yeah, so that, that has to twist you. I mean, and to still come out on the other side and go, “You know what? I’m gonna, do the right thing. , I’m gonna, I’m gonna take a pizza and leave 10 bucks,” right? I mean, it’s kind of, you see him do these small little gestures [00:15:00] that you’re right, you don’t have to do it.

There’s no one would even stop him, and I think that’s truly a character of his. It’s not the big things he does. It’s usually that, the tiny little things that, then they feed those into his storylines,

Nick: that’s why He’s the, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Yep. He, they really bring him down to that street level where if he were to do something nice for you, you’d be like, “Wow, that’s a good guy right there.”

Mm-hmm.

Alex: But I think it’s really cool how, like, when Spider-Man has these father figures that eventually become villains, and you can see that’s like you can see connections- Breaks my heart every time

Every time. But like, he sees something in them that he wants to become at some point. And then at the same time

They see something in him that reminds them of them. So in a way it feels like with these evil father figures, they try to maybe subconsciously get him away from

all the trauma that they’ve experienced. Get [00:16:00] like, “Hey, do this because we want– I want you to…” Like

with

Norman

Osborn, an example, for the original Spider-Man movies, he’s

like, “You know, do

it this way. I can help you get to this point ’cause we’re alike. We’re on the same whether it be intelligence, drive to succeed,” things of that nature.

And then it’s like A road map that

Peter sees

In these guys. So with N- Norman Osborn, he starts– The more he gets to know him, the more

he

understands

like,

“Oh, actually, that is a route I can take.” I especially like how it’s portrayed in the Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man series.

I think. Yeah, yep. The new, the newest one- where, you know,

Norman Osborn’s very much the father figure. in his life, but

joe: Yep

Alex: He doesn’t… Eventually he starts to see the coldness in how Norman Osborn carries himself and it’s just

like,

“Oh, is that what I’m becoming Like, Like, am I starting to act like that?” Like w- with great power comes great [00:17:00] respect, like How he twists that.

Nick: Yep.

Alex: That phrase, that was just like- … That doesn’t feel right.

That doesn’t, that’s not something how…

joe: And create those designs. Yeah. That doesn’t feel right. That isn’t, that’s not something- Doesn’t sit right. Right. Yeah. Are you sitting right? Yeah.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: Well, I do feel like Peter definitely has a little bit reserve. Like, he tends to give them a more leeway when it comes to these things. In the Spider-Man game that was for the PS4, he does the same thing with Otto, where he- he starts to figure it out, but he doesn’t wanna fully admit it that it’s happening. Like, it’s the rose-colored glasses that he’s wearing

Well, he’s just having a bad

day.

joe: I think he wants it, right? So you want it really bad. You want these connections. You were talking about the animated series. I think that one, it came out a couple years ago maybe. I don’t know now. It feels like a little bit. But

Nick: I think last year, man La- last what is

time? What is time?

What

is

joe: kind of his origin story was cooked in there, and riding that line between, gang life and street and trying to be [00:18:00] part of that. And now with this, these abilities, like

What’s he gonna– I mean, I think, yeah, the next season probably will explore some of that. But that’s also that

Nick: last year

joe: same kind of line that you have in there where, you know… But I do find these things and I I’m jumping a little bit ’cause my head’s jumping. But

Nick: Same here, buddy …

joe: I wanna go, I wanna I wanna pull on his father.

I- there’s a reason I wanna pull on him just one more thread, and that’s in the MCU.

Nick: One more web,

joe: one more web one more web a thread. We’ll talk about those webs in a little bit. But you know, we have Iron Man kind of as the father figure mentor. Yeah.

And now we’re gonna reboot, and Dr. Doom’s coming along, right?

I mean, that, that’s gonna be… Once again, I think you guys

Nick: I can’t wait to see what’s gonna happen.

joe: If I’m right now, you guys, let’s get your tissues ready. I think this is a… I think there’s gonna be a, you know… I think, yeah, that’s gonna be a big tearjerker.

Nick: Joe, you’re gonna see me cry at, in the middle of the night That’s[00:19:00]

joe: Yeah.

Alex: Tommy. That’s not Tommy.

joe: Yeah, that’s right. , that scene when, you know, in, Infinity War when he was breaking apart that imp- almost improv scene, and you get, , this is like that-

Nick: Breaks your heart …

joe: like that father-son moment. Like, and he was clinging to that like, “Tell me what’s wrong.

Tell me it’s gonna be better.” And it was like… And then that guilt, , it drove him in Endgame. That was, Tony Stark’s kind of… He thought about that. That, that was eating at him, and then he went back and then made that sacrifice. But fast-forward,

Nick: with the father figure, he ended up putting that same figger- father figure energy towards Mysterio, Jake Gyllenhaal’s

character. Mm-hmm. And that was such a poor decision of trying to just replace that energy with Mysterio, and it’s just backfiring so hard.

joe: It’s so hard But has he learned his lesson, right? Will that be a trigger point also? Will he reject Doom or, will that

Nick: Ooh, like[00:20:00]

joe: right? Yeah, you know, kind of, yeah. Okay. There we are.

Alex: feel I feel like,

joe: That’s the

Alex: I don’t know, ’cause

joe: I’m just going, I’m just going through. They, no one asked me to write anything, but

Alex: I don’t- I feel like he is so trusting of Tony Stark because,

you know, especially MCU Tony Stark, h- his, just the path that he took to become a hero is very similar to Spider-Man’s. Like, he didn’t use the power that he had responsibly. It caused someone’s death. In Iron Man’s case, like, they were using his weapons for the military, and people around the world were getting killed with his weapons.

So it

was just

like,

like Spider-Man, Iron–

Tony

Stark was carrying that guilt.

Like,

that was the only thing really driving him

to

be a hero.

you know, use his great power more responsibly. And so, like, when Spider-Man

meets Tony Stark,

They just click on that.

Like,

so

They’re,

basically the same person, just different [00:21:00] powers in the MCU. So-

Nick: like, he- I mean,

their energy was just electric. Yeah, exactly. And then if they do this, i- if, I don’t know, like, a part of me is thinking, like, they’re not gonna have Dr. Doom take his helmet off, so it won’t even be like a you look like Tony Stark thing. But

Alex: if they do and they have an interaction with Spider-Man, it’s just gonna be this, with Dr.

Doom, it’s gonna be like this complete betrayal of this father figure that Spider-Man

had.

joe: right? I mean, is that part of it? Because he did have the whole thing where everyone forgets who he is, and so you have this

Nick: But he doesn’t forget them.

Like

joe: I’m saying. He doesn’t forget them, but the other way, right? There would be no connection. So is that the burn, right?

Where you go, “Hey,” you know- I don’t

Nick: gonna fall for the same father figure tricks anymore. After Aunt May dies, I think he’s lost that. Like, he doesn’t have something to go home [00:22:00] to anymore. So he’s just in a nomad land at the moment

joe: Now he can become a villain, right? He’s there.

Nick: Oh, he jumping sides over with Doom over

there?

I mean-

joe: no, he’s

Nick: I wouldn’t be upset by this.

Alex: get the black suit, get the black suit on and Stripped down to his core and just emotionally raw, emotionally angry, Which the Venom suit

joe: The Venom suit. The Venom suit, yep.

Nick: Opposite of Peter. And with Eddie Brock being in it, you have that complete other

side of it. You got the yin and the yang. He can’t sense Venom with his spider sense because it’s so much him

joe: Well, I mean, that’s the thing about the Symbiote, right? That it, it gained Spider-Man’s ability and understands him, but he doesn’t have any of the mental baggage, right? So that it’s almost like that is the what Spider-Man would be without maybe some of the grief baggage, right? And that’s a good

That’s a, [00:23:00] yeah an interesting point, the, to look at that. But, you know, a true mirror image. And then you got, and then you got Eddie, who also has his baggage, right? his life was tossed upside down. He also was at the bottom and, when a Symbiote kind of found him or he found it, I don’t know.

I mean, you can … I don’t know how destiny-

Nick: They found each other, know? They were just Had

joe: a

Alex: a little meet

cute together.

joe: Yeah.

Nick: I want The rom-com of that. This one- Yeah.

joe: that’s right. It’s

Nick: like, “Oh, hello.” I mean, kind- the Venom movies kinda did it

You’re so right. …

joe: I was gonna say

Nick: They were kinda rom-com-y.

joe: yeah, it did feel like a little love fest in there,

but yeah, I think that’s where you have that. So we got Spider-Man. So it, it sounds like if I’m reading the room, the empty studio in the digital room that y’all … I mean, you would have no problem with Spider-Man dipping his toe into a villain, villaindom, I guess. I don’t know if that’s

I mean, would you feel some [00:24:00] way? I see Alex getting a little

Nick: He has in stories before. Like, if it’s what he thinks is right he’s done some very dark things. What, in, wow, what storyline was it? It was one of the Spider-Verse comics where he ended up using Reed

Richards to

hold the

city together, and Reed was in invincible

pain ’cause he shouldn’t be stretched that far and it’s just that Spider-Man took a darker route.

Like, he lost more people and thought that he can’t lose the whole

city if he uses Reed to

you know,

do what he needs to do.

joe: gets back to, like, the Poison Ivy argument, right? That the ends justify the means. Is that, so if you have a few casualties, if you lose Reed. Right, but save the city, I think he also falls into that trap a lot, like [00:25:00] overextending himself and,

you know.

And then hopefully someone bails him out, right?

Alex: Yeah. I, you know, the idea of a Spider-Man dipping, becoming a villain, it,, it, it sounds fun, but also I just, it would break my heart because, he, that’s just not what he’s about,

Especially at the end of No Way Home, like all good he did, like just like to make everyone on the planet forget about your existence, like that’s one

of the most ultimate heroic sacrifices you could do

Yeah. For him to just give up on his morals and ideals, like it would just make all of that just like pointless. Like why do that if you’re just gonna

joe: His morals and ideals would just make all of that just, pointless. Like why do that if you’re just gonna- Well, unless that’s your long play, right? I mean, and now if you wipe the slate clean, no one knows who you are. Now you can go out Just go and let your freak flag fly, right?

I mean, just kind of feel like,

Nick: is “[00:26:00]

joe: I’m gonna do

Nick: Why I do

think that the Venom suit will show up, and that is where it’s gonna have that darker twist. Like, the Venom suit is always that this is the dark Spider-Man that everyone’s always like, “Oh, yeah, this is what we want.” But, like, no one truly wants the

Venom suit to stick around. Like-

Yeah. it’s

joe: multiverse there has to be Spider-Men-

Nick: Oh, 100%

joe: who went down a different path.

Nick: Yeah,

joe: if they’re gonna play that out and have that, we, we accept the multiverse and then it’s different versions of Spider-Man from noir to pig to, you know, whatever then you

Nick: A pig?

joe: that you know,

Nick: the pig becomes the villain.

joe: The pig becomes the villain. But you have that kind of, that idea where you go in and there has to be villainous Spider-Men. I don’t, I, I’m surprised we haven’t seen, that’s, I mean, maybe,

Nick: Peters …

that aren’t always [00:27:00] in Spider-Man suits.

joe: Are always in Spider-Man suits.

Right. Right

Alex: There’s there’s, you know, there’s- ’cause what

Nick: in-

Alex: There’s the Venomized Spider-Man that actually does take out his villains.

There’s Spider-Carnage

joe: Garnets, right. Right

Alex: Which was that, highlights that one

joe: Yeah

Nick: wasn’t there a spider lizard, or a Peter lizard? Yeah.

Alex: that’s like Gwen Stacy’s- Yeah … universe, right? Yeah. That one, where he kills her.

Nick: Yeah. Or was he the lizard in that or was he the Green Goblin? So

Alex: that one he, he was the lizard in-

Nick: Oh …

Alex: Ghost-Spider’s universe Okay. And then I guess if you wanna count- Okay, I was like, wait, I- … Marvel Zombies,

If you count Marvel Zombies-

joe: Mortal zombies Oh, I love zombies. Yes. We count it. I don’t know if he’s a villain then, right? You’re just a zombie. Are zombies villains?

Nick: yeah.

joe: are. I don’t think they are. They have

Alex: They were,

joe: They’re just impulse-driven

Alex: sense of what they were doing

joe: What they were doing- Yeah, I mean, 100%. They knew what They were doing

Nick: They didn’t care You

Alex: can make the argument that the virus was so, like, in- [00:28:00] like, insatiable, like they couldn’t stop the hunger.

So y- y- you can make That

argument, yeah. But also they were constantly aware, like, “Man, I feel really bad about this. I wish we were smart enough to figure something out,”

which they definitely were

joe: then you’re just impulse driven, right? So once the impulse drives you, you’re not, you have no control. So they really don’t have control, right? I mean, I guess if they eat, then they get control. But then, if they eat, you’re saying they’re a villain. So really that’s a loop there that you know but-

Alex: They just gotta jump off a

joe: You gotta jump off

so that’s why I’m kind of, yeah, right, or do something else.

Nick: I forgot

there was

one,

character in there that was eating small bits to keep control of himself. I can’t remember which one it was though.

Alex: Giant man. He had the brothers- Was, yes

tied up And he was just taking pieces

joe: slithers of them, right. Yeah

Nick: And that wa- like, he still wasn’t there. Yeah

joe: and I’m gonna stay, I’m gonna stave off zombieism by [00:29:00] feeding small pieces. Okay. This isn’t a zombie episode. As much as I would love it to be, it is not. It’s a Spider-Man looking at through his villains.

Yeah. So what else we got?

Alex: So yeah I like going- See, wow. Go ahead … just to go back to the Venom one real quick. Like, yeah, like, like y’all said earlier, that’s like the… Venom’s the perfect counter to Spider-Man. Like, they’re basically the exact… They are the exact same character, but just different paths taken. Like, one’s like Spider-Man chooses responsibility and good, and the other one chooses straight up revenge. And like even with the

alternate universe where Spider-Man does

get

completely taken over by the Venom

symbiote, like that’s what happens. He starts taking out his villains. He starts going down that darker path of violence and murder and mayhem complete opposite. So like yeah, it’s just he- Venom is what Spider-Man

could have

been if he [00:30:00] let that trauma of his uncle Pa- getting killed just push him too far, which just

goes to show, like his internal strength. It’s like, ’cause, you know, u- understand like if we

love our family member and Someone takes them out, like- we’re

gonna be angry. If we have the power to do something- Oh … we’re gonna do something. But he

Nick: chose-

Alex: 100% would

Nick: do it

joe: And I mean, it’s one of those

Nick: See, villain path goes really

easy for me …

joe: get there, but I mean, you’re talking about,

, Venom and his taking out. \ He also he feels like he has some moral code. He wants to have fun and he’s kinda silly, but he is kind of in that, I think once again, in that anti-hero frame, and this gets me to, to Spider-Man in some ways.

Is he actually restricting his power, right? I mean, is Yeah … he holds back.

Osborn’s kind of needling? Like, you’re holding yourself back because really if he just un- he took the filter off and the regulator off, he could [00:31:00] end crime. Kingpin, a lot, a number of these people aren’t, are really a match for him, both physically and mentally. He’s one of the smartest, as a teenager, one of the smartest people in the Marvel Universe. I think he would rank

Nick: Yet very dumb with finances. Like

his finances are trash

joe: yeah. I mean,

Nick: He

does not save money.

joe: I mean, and he, but he doesn’t, he also was, you know, he wasn’t brought up with means, so that, that’s it.

So he’s frugal. His dumpster diving, scrounging for pizza, going to the bodega for sandwiches and, bartering. I think that’s just who he is. I think, he’ll always… That’s that I think you empathize.

People relate with that. They go, “Oh, I, oh yeah, if I’m a sp- that’s how I’m gonna be. I’m gonna be in the hood. I’m gonna be like,, ‘Hey, you guys want sandwiches? You want…’, da.”

Nick: what,

in the Spi- in Homecoming they say, “Oh man, I thought you were gonna be Black, man.”

joe: Yeah.

Nick: Oh. Just like- Oh, I’m sorry. Oh man, I’m sorry. Or that was n- that was Far From Home. No

Way Home. No, Way Home,

there it is. I [00:32:00] was like, wait, which one was that?

joe: No, so I, I think you have this where, it does him a disservice maybe. I don’t know. Well, let’s say not a villain. Let’s go anti-hero. Would that, would you just go he’s just bludgeoning people through New York City, cleaning the streets, just a new sheriff’s in

Nick: But then you go with the Batman route. Like, Batman

straight up.

joe: but

Nick: doesn’t care about them being

poor or not, or the conditions that

they’re

in, where Peter does. Peter cares about, “All right, here, what’s the problem?” Like, “Y- I know you’re going through hard times. You’re trying to steal money from this pizza place, but, like, can you just not?”

joe: I mean, I’m

Nick: he tries to reason

joe: You’re right I agree there, right? So in that case, yes, but I’m talking about high-level crime, like

Nick: Oh yeah, take

’em out,

joe: I’m talking about, up there, right? That’s the thing with Batman. I think you’re right. You go to DC and Batman, a lot of the people he’s picking on, they’re mentally unstable.

They got other issues.

Nick: He just

beats the shit out of

joe: should be in a institution, [00:33:00] maybe have a different conversation with them, like a different intervention. Also, he doesn’t have superpowers, right? I mean, we can go through all that. He is not a super-powered individual, so his

Nick: can’t afford to have conversations.

joe: Uh, so I’m not picking on DC, I’m just saying that a- as a character.

So but with Spider-Man, he truly, he does, and he’s equal… He’s as smart as Bruce Wayne, right? I think he would give him bang for his bang for technology development and he also is powered. So on that level, can he have a still a little minor kind of moral code? And Nick’s point, okay, yeah, I mean, you’re starving at home.

You stole a loaf of bread. I’m not gonna crush you down. I’m not gonna beat you just because I’m

Nick: Batman will.

joe: Let’s talk it out. But also, should he be more aggressive on the streets, right? Should he be more laying the lumber down on somebody’s… You know, crossing that line., it’s a fine line, but

I don’t know. He seems to not wanna [00:34:00] cross it. I mean, that’s-

Nick: I think with this actual, super villains, if he goes a little harder, he’s gonna do major damage. Like, this isn’t even saying, unleash the full power of him, ’cause he is a very strong character,

joe: Yes

Nick: but full strength I think he wipes the table. Like, each one of them. That’s why he’s able to go against the Sinister Six with all

Six of them going at him at the same time

Like-

Alex: Absolutely. He took off the scorpion’s jaw when he was

possessed

by a-

Nick: Yeah …

Alex: Doc Ock,

Nick: and-

Alex: Yeah …Doctor Octopus. I’m like, “Oh, no.”

Nick: You’re like, “Oh.”

Alex: It was… If I was a Spider-Man villain, I saw that, I’m like, “All right. I’m retired. I

ain’t-“

Nick: I’m

walking.

joe: I’m checking out. Finding

Nick: think I’m gonna go mess with Wolverine instead.

Don’t

worry.

joe: yeah. I mean, I don’t know if that’s where you wanna go, but

Alex: That- I, but I think that’s a good point. Like, I

feel like he [00:35:00] absolutely can be more aggressive on cri- he’s surely capable of it, and that’s, like, one of the reasons why I’m glad he’s not a villain because if he was he would be an absolute monster. ‘Cause, like- with, like, regular criminals, he doesn’t do too much to them.

Like, he might do a, throw a little kick or a punch, but for the most part he just messes with, like, like, bank robbers, he’ll just mess with them stick them to a

wall, because,

joe: Doop, doop. Yep.

Alex: But like, that, ’cause that’s all he needs to

do. Like, that’s how

beneath they are, and that’s the whole part with, like, with great power.

joe: He doesn’t go any further than he has to, right? And I don’t know if that’s just because

Alex: you’re playing, unless you’re playing the Spider-Man video game where you can just throw people off- Whoa … off the building, right? You’re just giving them the biggest medical bill ever. Throwing sewer grates at shoplifters from a liquor store. But like, but yeah, like, he, that’s part of the whole great power, great responsibility.

Like, he knows he has this power in him and, like, when he meets Daredevil, like, Daredevil himself says, like, he is, like, [00:36:00] tensing up

His muscles so much because he doesn’t need to hurt people that much. He can just,

he can get the job done without doing it. But with the higher level crimes, like I know there’s a couple villains where he’s just, like definitely considered it, like Green Goblin- obviously. Kingpin. He’s just like,

“You know, I could-“

Mm.

joe: Yep

Alex: May- maybe this time I can just let

it go.”

joe: You brought up Daredevil and just the the Reborn season two. I don’t know. I don’t wanna spoil it, but I think he also had that issue and some of that was personal. Like, you- Yeah … the villains define you, right?

And so if you take ’em out, then what do you do, right? It’s like retiring from your 30-year career. You retire, you’re home, you got plenty of time, and then you just feel… You hear people talk about how they just, they feel they got nothing, like their life is meaningless now. Even though they had this great career and everything.

So I wonder if he holds back ’cause he likes the thrill of… I mean, right? I mean, is there some, not just, [00:37:00] you know, Marvel needs to make money, but it’s like

Alex: be a, like a fear of what they’ll become if they cross that line. So

like let, let, uh, if Spider-Man kills the Kingpin then like, oh, there’s no more crime. Oh, I had my point, and it go- I think it was just if he crosses that line, Kingpin’s gone, and then he’s like, “Okay, well now I have to keep going because now…” Like the only reason they don’t kill is because they’re afraid of what will happen once they cross that line. So like, like the o- like so I need to beat up this guy close to death, but as much as possible, or I’m going to kill more people

joe: Yeah. But once

Alex: Because like it’s-

joe: you know, once you push someone like let’s say Kingpin to the brink of death, I mean he has tons of resources, tons of power still. He comes back. He’s gonna now invest in the next generation [00:38:00] of, you know- Villains powered villains, right? He’s gonna try, or technology villains.

He’s gonna try to do that. So you really you’re creating, just go ahead and end it and then, you gotta eat that too, right? I mean, you’re living with all this guilt already. Why not, why is that gonna, why is that the tip over point? I mean, you

Nick: I do think

J. Jonah Jameson does keep him in check though.

Like, if as soon as he does anything wrong, Jameson has him on blast.

joe: just jealous, man. I

Nick: the,

Alex: at that point it’s just

pettiness.

Nick: Like

Alex: it’s- that’s why he doesn’t kill nobody. He It’s just pettiness

joe: Yeah, I think that’s a… I don’t know what the man’s problem is. I think he’s just hating for hating’s sake, you know?

Alex: I feel like it would be similar, like if Spider-Man started killing people, it’s just like, “Okay, well, I killed Kingpin, so like maybe I should also probably kill Mysterio, ’cause he’s messed up.” And then it goes, “Okay, well, Mysterio was pretty bad, and,

Rhino has a whole suit attached to

him … it wouldn’t be too much to, it wouldn’t be too much

we might as well just off him … of [00:39:00] a stretch if I killed Shocker,

you know? And it just, it- Similar to how Superman did in the Injustice series. Like yeah, he killed the Joker. Oh, yeah. The Joker needed to go.

Okay, then he killed Darkseid’s son. Like

that makes sense, and then it just becomes progressively like, oh, now you’re just killing people that disagree with you.

Like it’s just, it’s like a, like that pain that Spider-Man is always in, like that will become an addiction. Like this will be the only thing that soothes that pain, is to take life. So I feel like it just won’t stop. So like he’ll he won’t be Spider-Man anymore. He’ll just be Killer.

joe: Yeah. It’s just

Nick: Killer Man. You know, we got Killer Man over here.

Alex: Killer

Man.

joe: Killer Man. It’s… Yeah.

Alex: Proportional strength of a Killer

joe: which multiverse universe is that? Killer Man. Killer Spider-Man. No, I think that’s a good point. I think you’re right.

Nick: Ooh, that would actually be a really cool series

joe: where would the line, where [00:40:00] would you draw the line, or how would you draw the line?

Or could you draw a line? Would you start to parse through and go, “Well, this is level five. This is four out of five villain stars. This is five out of five. Okay you’re getting taken out.” Right. Right. You, “

Nick: Oh, you’re only on four stars.

You are

so lucky. Oh.”

joe: 3.7. If you tick up, you know…

Yeah. So he would… You’re right. And then would you just escalate? Would then, would that lead to escalation of powered individuals? Like, would they then become… Would you create a power vacuum? ‘Cause once you take out, are you gonna now draw in or draw out? And they’ll just go somewhere else.

Instead of in New York, they’ll be in Philadelphia, right? I mean, I don’t know. You know, no one…

Alex: Which honestly criminals should do

in the Marvel universe. Like all the heroes are in New

York City.

Like why is there

crime there?

Nick: It’s

just better off to just go over

one state,

joe: Yeah. go to Jersey, Philly. I mean, Boston. There’s a lot of other biggish cities there that you can,

Alex: Go, like, go [00:41:00] to,

like, a small town. Go to, like, Albany, New

York

joe: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. Yeah. New York, what, is the second largest city? First, then LA, New York. Philly’s the sixth largest, , that’s a lot of people. A lot of crime there you could get into, so…

Nick: I’ve definitely read a series where what, I think the Vulture went on vacation to Albany with a retreat of things, and Peter just so happened to be there. He’s like, “Come on, dude. Like, don’t start things.” Like, “Just trying to have a good weekend.” And then

obviously things happen and escalate.

It’s just like, yeah what are the chances?

You try to get out of town

joe: Well, like I said, there’s some money in that, those storylines, right? So

Nick: You gotta write it. You

gotta write it now

joe: guess what? Who’s here?

I’m just going to go see the Liberty Bell. Why are you here, dude? What… is your class

Alex: Like I’m,

joe: Yeah

Alex: I used up all my PTO for this, Spider-Man,

come

on

joe: It’s like, [00:42:00] “I just got a day off. Let me be.”

Nick: The benefits suck. I’m sorry.

joe: But yeah, I think that yeah, that’s good. So some stuff, I think. I mean, we talked about… I’m gonna, I’m gonna get a little bit of handwavium and his webbies. I think that’s always a fun one.

Nick: What are you talking about?

joe: the webs he shoots out, right? I mean, that’s kind of

Nick: Listen, I’ve been following someone on

Instagram and they are making webs at home

joe: They’re making webs at home. What kind of web?

What are you talking about?

Nick: They are, they’re making web fluid.

joe: Yeah, I don’t… Okay.

Nick: I’ll, I’ll see if I can send it to you.

joe: I’ll see if I can send it to you. Yeah, no, please do. And there, there’s probably some, I don’t know about at home we talk about bio kind of scientists in their garage doing stuff. But spiders, do form, like orb spiders, they can produce seven different silks depending on the function.

And so they have this process, so really interesting, high tensile strength stronger than high-grade steel. So some of that, some of these ideas, really elastic, much more [00:43:00] elastic than steel. So these ideas are really interesting and that was some of the science I bet to the Spider-Man and his webs.

And to Nick’s point, there’s the goat spider milk, right? You guys hear… This was some years ago

Nick: goat spider milk?

joe: spider milk. So you really can’t… So, like, silkworms is how we get a lot of our silk because they go,

Nick: Oh, okay. I know what you’re talking about now

joe: you can raise silkworms, but you really can’t raise spiders ’cause they’re territorial.

They, you know, there’s a lot of problems with just having a bunch of spiders and trying to harvest their silk. So these researchers, they engineered goats that they would produce the silk proteins in their milk, and then you can extract it out the milk and then sp- and spin it. It’s similar to spider silk, but it’s not functionally as strong, things like that.

But you can use it for fiber, bulletproof vests. There’s a lot of things you can do with it that’s really kind of handy. And so yeah, so they went, and they started, like, a company. [00:44:00] It’s really fascinating, like, that whole thing and trying to do that. But people are trying to engineer kind of silk genes into, E.

coli yeast so that you can produce silk without– spider silk without kind of using spiders. And so that gets into that you could have, Spider-Man synthesizing fluid. Spider fluid is, has some real world, it’s not 100% handwavium, right?

The handwavium part is that to actually eject the web and, to cover, distance to swing through Manhattan you know, kind of you know it would have to support, his weight the gravity force of it, and you’re talking, hundreds of pounds of dynamic load to go there.

So you would be using probably liters or gallons of fluid in a single night. And so if you have little cartridges, you’d probably have, hundreds, thousands of cartridges weighing down Spider-Man. Like,

Alex: That, that’s your whole suit is the web cartridge

joe: just web [00:45:00] cartridges. So I think, yeah, it would be, probably ver- very handwavium that he’s not synthesizing that much.

Or to do the things he does, maybe just to web up a person here or there, okay. But to be actually physically swinging , Tarzan through Manhattan, that’s yeah, probably not probably not,

Nick: That’s so insane that scientists can do that with a

goat spider. That is crazy.

joe: yeah. Check it out. I’ll put the link will be in the show notes on that, but yeah, that was a real thing.

They started a company, but then I think the company went bankrupt because they were, they had the goats, on display. It was a weird thing in public. People didn’t really like that. It freaked them out. Like, it’s just like, you know. But I think they still, they re- Yeah, they re- The original two goats, I think they were, like, Sugar and Spice or something was their names, or something like that.

I’ll look that up for y’all. But yeah, it’s, … But yeah, they, , but now they’ve they’re still doing this and have applications that they do it, but it’s not as public now. Like, they’ve kind of learned their lesson that people don’t like to think about spider goat milk, [00:46:00] so.

Nick: I do.

joe: Um, but yeah, so that was one of the things I’d seen I thought was really interesting, that spider silk does have a lot of cool properties to it, so that part is,

you know, yeah,

Alex: no, that’s gonna trip me out for the rest of the night. I’m just gonna be sitting here like- milk goats and make spiderwebs

joe: that’s gonna trip me out for the rest of the day. They look like little spider webs. Spider

Alex: out of the I’m gonna tell my wife, I’m gonna tell my wife this, and she’s gonna be like, “What are you talking about?”

joe: Not normal goats that, that you you see at the farm. Like, these aren’t those goats. Goats don’t normally do this. Yeah, these are engineered goats, so they engineer genes in. So Yep. So not a … Don’t worry about

Nick: just, I can’t,

joe: Yeah, your …

Alex: I can’t just go up to a goat and don’t go

joe: yeah, no, yeah, no, your goat milk in the

Nick: find a, random goat. Let me web you. Come here.

joe: doesn’t have silk proteins.

But yeah, you could actually … I mean, we joke about this in other episodes, you know, so s- Peter could have his garage lab, and he could be engineering silk proteins and making his fluid and [00:47:00] things like that. So yeah, it- it’s possible. But he would– the amount he would need is extraordinary.

And then you have it where it’s produced biologically, right? That’s the other … So there’s the cartridge Spider-Man, which I think is most, and probably the most, still a lot of handwavium, but we can kind of, we could imagine. But I think actually producing it out of your body, I think, I don’t know.

I just don’t think that would

Alex: must take A physical toll on his

body, especially the more

joe: Yep

Alex: he uses it. Like, I’m kind of s- like similar to how like the Flash needs to digest a bunch of calories, I feel like the same

joe: There it is. Big Mac conversation’s gonna happen.

Alex: Spider-Man

Nick: We haven’t had one of

those

in a while.

joe: talked about calories in a while. Yeah, no I agree. I think the whole Spider-Man biology is gonna be caloric heavy.

Nick: Mm-hmm ……He’s all physical Yeah, So we’re talking about him being frugal. It, this comes up a lot, that I [00:48:00] think his food budget is probably holding him back.

joe: I think

Nick: That makes sense.

joe: That’s why we that’s why I keep saying Wolverine goes back to the mansion, ’cause he’s like, “Dude, I gotta eat, man. I’ll live… Professor’s got

Nick: There’s free food over here, bub

joe: right. Yeah, so, but yeah, I mean, Spider-Man, he has, I mean, besides, if he’s gonna shoot webs out, you’re right.

That’s just gonna be the caloric load there. A, will they be thick enough? Can he hold those? Those are different. It’s gonna be even just shooting out little web, that’s gonna take some calories. His healing factor, , he heals up incredibly fast. Maybe not as fast as Wolverine, but he does have some healing factor, which that mirrors spiders.

They can, during molting, regenerate limbs and things like that. They have this ability. But also, that’s gonna take, I think we had talked in the Wolverine episode, Deadpool episode something about 10,000 calories resting. And if you’re active, about 50,000 per hour, meaning these are per hour calories, where you’re just actively, your body, your metabolic rate is so high.

And that’s using human physiology. [00:49:00] So we also talked about that maybe whatever mutation happened, it also changed the way you process metabolically food and things like that. So, so maybe his numbers come down a little bit. But just if we say, he’s mostly still r- running under human, 1.0, you know, right?

So a thing

Nick: Human 1.0.

joe: that, you know. He, I he could be in, in the 20, 30,000 calories , a day, you know? And if he’s really active, he’s really fighting, he’s really… When you hit someone incredibly hard to do that, to tear their jaw off you are exerting a lot of force and, in a burst in action.

So these thing, these types of activities would also generate, if you’re always on high alert, that anxiousness or spidey sense, that’s also taking a toll. And we hear about that. People that are anxious, they are in a state of a distress and metabolic kind of activity is happening there firing, neurons are firing.

Your mind is going. So yeah I think you’re right. He would

Nick: It always hurts when [00:50:00] my therapist says that it’s not spider sense,

it’s anxiety.

joe: I think he would be eating a lot more, probably most of the time. Which he does, and it… I mean, it- it’s probably one of the characters that has the character eating a lot. And usually, like a whole pizza or something like that.

Like, he’s just munching down in between,

Nick: he does eat a

lot.

That is-

I didn’t realize that

until now

Alex: There’s just their subtle way of saying this, yeah. What do you think is his, like, go-to meal? Like, if it’s a perfect evening and he’s like, “Ooh, I’m e- I’m throwing down on this.” What do you what would you say?

Nick: Is he cooking or is he going out?

Alex: Let’s say he’s cooking. Or, you know, let me rephrase. Like, his I’m starting the day, I’m about to do my Spider-Man stuff, let me eat, let me consume this real quick before I go out.

Nick: I think he what I- it’s always Aunt May’s wheatcakes. Isn’t that

the thing that. he… Does he I wanna say or is that just free food, right? I mean, it’s like, “I need some calories.”[00:51:00]

I think he has

the recipe card ’cause it’s in the

Spider-Man- PS4 game.

that they give you the recipe I love the thing, ’cause w- which movies… Well, I mean, or maybe all of them, but where he goes just down to the bodega and he gets the smushed sandwich.

Yeah. That was, uh, I just see him, doing that, throwing whatever. Make me my special, cheese, meat, breakfast time, maybe a egg on there. I mean, right? You just smush it down and there you go. I think he would eat more than one.

But pizzas are a lot of Calories

and are

fairly cheap.

joe: pizza would be the other thing, right? I mean,

Alex: Got a good amount of

protein.

Nick: Yeah. Like, you could… It’s high caloric intake right

there

joe: Yep. high calorie intake right there. What, three, 300 or 400 calories a slice? So yeah, no he kind of, he’s scarf down one of those. I mean-

Yeah.

I don’t know if

Nick: I’m Keith

joe: I mean, that’s the other problem. You eat… I mean, ’cause it’s not, it’s filling,

Nick: he’s not

eating and swinging at the same time.

joe: think- Wait, maybe you have to.

Nick: He doesn’t. You’re right

he’s got his mask down, like [00:52:00] he’s gonna

joe: But I’m saying you, you’re there, you’re at the restaurant, he’s chilling. He’s two pies in. He’s like, “Man, I’m getting full.” And then there’s something break out in the street. Scorpion comes rolling down. He’s gotta go, he’s gotta get to work, right? He’s gotta

like…

Nick: Can we not do this right now,

guys?

joe: It’s Like, “Hey, can you go…” And so is that,

Nick: do you need an hour, Spidey?

Here, I’ll sit here. Just

give you, give you an hour

joe: why he, it feels like he’s throwing his punches a little bit. Maybe he can’t, maybe he’s still digesting. Maybe he’s like on a calorie load. He’s, after a large meal, you gotta like chill, but he can’t.

He’s gotta get out there and go. And it’s like, you know what? I really don’t I don’t, I can’t do this. Let’s

Alex: what If he had protein shakes

made from goat spider milk? How helpful would that be?

joe: Yeah. It’s artificial… Yeah, the protein he’s making to make his web juice, he just drinks that and that’s it, you know? So he’s,

Alex: He got, he, he got

two of those goat spiders, spider goats [00:53:00] in his ho- at his home

joe: No, but

Alex: he takes care of

Nick: That’s why he keeps getting evicted. It’s like, “You

have the goats here, Peter.” “

joe: Oh, what are you doing in there? What are you doing in there?” no, I think, Spider-Man’s just a really, he’s a fascinating character. I think he’s a favorite of everyone. I think if you go, I think he’s probably one of the most popular-

Nick: He’s definitely been one of my favorites since I was a

young lad. And hell, my little one absolutely loves Spider-Man. It’s an easy c- go-to

joe: Easy to relate to. I think that’s it. I mean, you kinda just a everyday person can relate to Spider-Man, and that’s what … A- and that’s really kinda nice, I think. And it’s … I, Alex, I agree with you. I think if he, if that villain line came out, it would be a fun read or fun mini-series. I think it would be enjoyable.

But some part of you would be like, “Oh, that, oh, I

Nick: Just a little hurt?

joe: Oh, is that, would that, would I do that? I opened the episode up with [00:54:00] that mirror. Like, what would you do? Like, if all of a sudden you, you became Spider-Man. I just don’t, I don’t know.

I mean, I feel like I’m a good person. Feel like I would do the

Nick: There are some files I have to find out the names of.

joe: yeah, I mean,

Alex: I, I’m not saying you should go after people, but-

Nick: Listen, I

Alex: got a whole list … I’ll look over here, Jawn, yeah.

joe: I’m gonna have my

Alex: But what would you do, what would you do though if you had Spider-Man’s powers?

You woke up and you’re Sp-

joe: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I would, A, probably have to eat. I mean, that’s, we just talked about that. After my meal,

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: Joe’s already got his- list planned. He’s

like, I’m

gonna grill out for like three hours.”

joe: eat, gotta start making my spider milk extracting my webs.

Nick: Now would you be, would you

want organic or inorganic, though, Joe?

joe: inorganic. N- stop it. No inorganic. I don’t want it, need to stop. All of it’s organic. I,

Nick: No, I want it to be fake.

joe: I don’t know. I think that you, I think [00:55:00] wholeheartedly, deep down, I would do 80% good. I think you’re right. I don’t know.

But, and who’s here to s- I mean, is it just me now, Spider-Man, amongst all of you normal humans? Or is it

Nick: let’s say that, yeah

joe: You know? Yeah, I think, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. I would do… I’m, you’re right. I would think of something and I would capitalize on this. I need to make some money, retire, chill.

Nick: Oh, So

You’re, going that route. You’re just going capitalist would be… Yeah, no I think I, some part of me would. Like, I’d assume wake up, you know, take the South Shore, go to the lab, do my normal thing. You have these great abilities. I don’t know, and I’m not sure I would go out and just be like Crime Stopper, right? I, it’s a mixed bag.

joe: That’s not my

Nick: You want celebrity status from this?

joe: Yeah, why not? I mean, what, I mean, you know, do something. Write some books, and make some movies, be there. I don’t know. It’s,

Nick: Didn’t they cover that in Wonder Man?

joe: It is kind of, right? I mean, he [00:56:00] was… That

Alex: Yeah. Like You, You, you’d Wonder Man it. That’s fine.

I

respect it.

joe: No. How

Nick: You could be a stunt double

joe: That’s right, yeah.

I mean, just go have some fun with it. Not do anything malicious. I’m not saying I’m out there doing malicious things. It’s just how’s he doing that? That’s my secret to know, and that’s , that’s for you to find

Nick: I’ll make it all the way to the end

joe: pay the bills,

let’s go. Let’s roll. That’s like, gonna get the jet this weekend? Great. Let’s you know,

Nick: What about you, Alex? Where are you laying in this sit- situation?

Alex: Man, you know, I, to begin, like I’m not even a confrontational person to begin with, so even with powers, I don’t know if I’d go out and fight crime. I de- I definitely- Come on,

Nick: dude. I can’t be the only one

Alex: I definitely… ‘Cause, ’cause like, you know, ’cause think- things are so, it’s, like aren’t black and white anymore, you know? You don’t know what you’re walking into especially in my

city, like stuff goes down, but you don’t know who,

like what side do you

join know? So

I feel like i, I still I would try to [00:57:00] capitalize on the powers, but like kinda do, be a stunt double or be an Olympic athlete, not that they make that crazy money you know, just something to help me out- like- Just The

Nick: recognition

Alex: Yeah.

yeah.

And not even

the

recognition. Like I, I just need some money. and I would use the money to like help my community. Like that’s

Nick: obviously-

Alex: Well,

Nick: I feel like you would need the recognition for the money, right? Like-

Alex: True. Yeah that’s how you get

Nick: that money

Alex: That wouldn’t be, that wouldn’t be my sole goal.

It was just

like,

hey, you know-

joe: mean, the problem is there would… I mean, I just go back that I think there would be escalation that someone would try to figure out to come at you, right? I think that you’re… I asked, that’s the thing in my head as I was going through it, that you’re gonna cross a line. You’re gonna, you’re gonna, something’s gonna happen and I don’t know if you…

Nick: I already know it’s coming

joe: you’ll be labeled as a villain, right? I mean, I think that’s,

Nick: That’s what I said at the start. That’s exactly what I said. Come on.

joe: Yeah, so,

Nick: We just went full

circle with that one. Like They already gonna call me a villain. I

joe: so Nick, you’re just all in. You [00:58:00] are all in. Robin Banks.

Nick: all… No, I never said Robin Banks.

I…

joe: villain, right?

Nick: Does… I

might steal from the cartel.

joe: You gotta define your villainy now. So right, so you’re gonna draw… So you’re gonna do the thing where we talked about that slippery slope. You’re gonna draw the line that these folks are bad, these folks are good. I’m gonna steal, I’m gonna take from, , kinda Robin Hood kind of thing, right?

Nick: Yes, 100%.

joe: All right, I see. Yeah

Nick: that, I- Robin Hood would be labeled as a villain today, guys. We all know

this.

joe: But I think that would escalate

Nick: news would be like, “Oh this person is just stealing from these corporations,” and

it’s like, yep

joe: I think that would escalate going after

Nick: Oh,

100%. I am creating my own villains.

joe: You would begin to do that, right? And I was thinking earlier, Luke Cage especially the Netflix one, seri- part… S- season one and two, and you had this escalation where it was like, “We need to find weapons.

We need to find other people who can match that.” It was kind [00:59:00] of this whole thing where it was like, let’s escalate. Spider-Noir, if people haven’t seen it. It was, the same idea. Let’s escalate, and I think you would get that. I think you would start to generate, people stealing your DNA and trying to, recreate, other Super Nicks and things like that, you know?

So it’s

Nick: Oh my. Thank you.

joe: But I think that would be, that would, that… I mean, I see that’s what would happen. So how do you get ahead of that? How do you capitalize on it and then prepare for that, right? Do you get in and out, like, all right. Do you keep it on the DL for a little bit, you know,

Nick: you try to be sneaky about it. I’m not going, like, full swing, everyone’s gonna hear a big bang and be like, “Oh, that must be Nick over there.” oh, there’s Nick. And of course- There he goes … something to cover the identity, like full on don’t tell anyone. Yeah.

e- exactly. Mm-hmm. I mean, obviously everyone here- Need

joe: I think it’s gonna be you.

Nick: right away. They’re like, “Oh, that must be Nick.”

joe: minute it goes down, I’m like, Nick’s out there . [01:00:00] I read- I see the news story, I’ll be like, “Nick, dude what’s going on, brother?”

Alex: Then quick text,

“Was that

you?”

joe: yeah.

Alex: We had this

conversation- Why aren’t you

plu- … a while ago. You say you’re-

joe: the

Nick: Why aren’t you plugging the pod

out there, man? What are you doing?

joe: Why don’t you do that? You know, why don’t we get some something happening?

Nick: Throw a sticker up there,

bruh.

joe: Rob. Oh, cool.

Alex: But another question to throw at y’all we were talking about Spider-Man villains earlier. Who is both of y’all’s favorite Spider-Man villain? Be a

thick one. Oh.

Nick: That’s a hard question. Joe you got an answer right away, or-

joe: I don’t know if I have an answer. I, like favorite is hard because I don’t wanna favorite villain. But I like Doc Ock a little bit. Like I, I

Nick: to him?

joe: Maybe that’s it. He’s this kind of, he’s trying to do some good stuff. He’s trying to better, I don’t know.

He’s trying to, he’s trying to do something [01:01:00] worthwhile. He’s not necessarily psychotic. I think he’s just, I think he I think, yeah, he had the accident. I mean, I think he kinda went through, and then he was just a thing of circumstance, and he didn’t … When that tragedy happened to him, he picked the path he picked.

He wanted to strike out and lash out, and he was angry. Maybe a therapy session would’ve helped, but once again, once you have the power, it’s it’s hard to put that back in the box and go, “You know what? Maybe we s- have a sit-down, and we’ll work this out.” Because I think that’s all he needs.

I think if he had a little sit-down, get his rage under control, get his kinda … I think he would probably still be doing some really cool things and helping people with disabilities, and right? I could see this whole,

his technology, the brain interface, you know, that’s all brain machine interfaces.

That’s hot stuff right now. He was cutting edge, and, he’s there, so why not use that? You always see Spider-Man kind of trying to be that, but I think it just reminds him, [01:02:00] like, that Spider-Man’s not the person that should be trying to talk him down. Get someone else in there.

Get Daredevil in there, so like

Alex: honestly, like, I feel like both superheroes and villains could use a

lot of therapy. There’d be a lot less issues. If

joe: Yes, no. No,

Alex: they gave Scarlet Witch some therapy there would be a lot less problems.

joe: that problem. That would be a cool… That’d be a really cool anthology. If anyone’s listening to this and they want the, to do an anthology, hit me up, because I think it’d be really neat. I, we had Jonathan Maberry on, he talked about the the Night Nurse in, in Healing Superheroes anthology where, you know, that person that actually tends to their wounds and their…

But I think just the therapy one would be interesting. Let’s have different stories on the couch or wherever you meet them and, you know, working through their psychoses would be would be pretty fun. Okay, there you go.

Nick: I like that I think mine would have to be either Mysterio

or Black Cat. [01:03:00] Like- Oh, good night … I love the idea for Mysterio using, like, practical effects and, like, CGI just to get stuff around Peter, and

the not knowing what’s the reality is with his, you know, he does so many different things just to draw them in. It’s always a really cool, like, story with him. And then Black Cat definitely just has the line of good and evil. Like, she j-

walks the line Yeah …and Peter sees it, and he knows he shouldn’t be into her, and of course he is.

And

it’s just Like, “Oh.” Like, her crimes are minor. I really can’t give her too much shit.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: Like, what about you, Alex? Where are you at with this?

Alex: You know,

Growing up,

I was always a big fan of…

I like villains that

,like this [01:04:00] nearly un- unclimbable challenge- for the hero. And growing up for me, that was Carnage.

I feel like Carnage. was just-

Oh …was

just, like,

joe: Yeah. …

Alex: beyond what Spider-Man could overcome.

You know, it was just this unhinged, like,

like, no moral whatsoever just pure Not e- not even, like, instinctual. Like, what Carnage does was all intentional.

It was just this, a s- a sick person. And, like, the whole, like, all the comics I read, the cartoons or the video games I played, it just, Carnage was just this monster and he was horrifying.

And Spider-Man almost always dies

when he’s fighting him.

Nick: Oh,

Alex: 100%. And so it’s just … And then, but, like, when Spider-Man, like, either he teams up with someone or he just finds out a way to overcome him, it is just, oh, it’s, like, such a exciting moment for me, and I always had s- like, such a great time [01:05:00] anytime Carnage was involved. And the, you know, the re- the second Venom movie really hurt my feelings on how they portrayed- Oh … Carnage.

Nick: that

was such a rough one. “

Alex: Uh.” It was like- It was even- … it’s not even, it’s not even Carnage. I’m just gonna call him Damage I

Nick: wish they just didn’t need to do it.

joe: I, well, I think if you translate it you’re right. Alex, in some ways that with Carnage, I don’t think that movie comes out the way it’s not the way a hero movie should end. And so it’s , I think that’s why. ’cause it’s… I think when they go at it it’s 50/50. If Spider-Man doesn’t team up or doesn’t do so- yeah, it’s, he’s matched. That’s

Alex: Like, that Carnage,

that is just like pure-

Let’s see …like, I feel like Carnage represents that part of Spider-Man that’s just pure, just unleashed-

Nick: Yes …

Alex: just harm, just violence. And that’s that that’s that moment where if Spider-Man did cross that line, eventually he would just become untethered, where there is no [01:06:00] rhyme or reason why he’s committing violence.

He’s just doing it. And so I feel like that’s the furthest away from his

Morality that I feel like Spider-Man can get to is Carnage

joe: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah. 100%. Joe, have you gone through your list, buddy?

Did, Did, you have a list?

joe: I

Nick: don’t think you actually read it today.

joe: I didn’t have a list. No, I… No, no lists on this one. We go

Nick: Well then I do have one more question- for the table. Who is the strongest Spider-Man? Like, of the film series Of the film series

joe: Film series? Oh, like the old, like the

Strong,

Nick: Like the what?

joe: which way? Sorry. Physical strength or

Nick: Who is h- how do you wanna take it? Like

Alex: Y- you put them in a cage and you just- Who’s

Nick: walking out

alive? Who’s

Alex: last one standing.

joe: yeah,

Nick: wanna start off the

list?

joe: I don’t know. I don’t know. You got the, your guns loaded, so why don’t you you got the barrels ready to go, so why don’t you [01:07:00] just go?

Nick: Think with the whole round of powers that the Spider-Man has, it would have to be Miles. Like, he has more powers than Peter, as well as the strength of Peter. He is able to have that same feat that Peter can, but with that slight upgrade in different categories. He’s got n- not only invisibility, but electrical power, electric powers, and what in the comics, he even is able to force his electricity into a sword?

Like, the- That’s funny … they’re setting it up so hard for him just to be OP even more so than Peter. And what, e- even Holland, Tom Holland is saying that he can’t wait for them to bring Miles in so he could be the mentor to him. Like, I want that so bad, but-

Alex: Now he gets to [01:08:00] be the father figure.

Nick: and that’s what they’re g- that’s what he wants.

joe: What what happened in… Whatever … Right, when they had all of the multiverse Spider-Men, Mans come… I don’t know what the actual plural of Spider-Man. Spi- the Spider-Mans, right? ‘Cause it’s Spider-Man is… Spider-Man is his name, and there’s

Nick: spiders.

joe: Right. It’s like

Nick: The spiders

joe: But yeah they had that kind of father-y self kind of soothing inter- and in Miles, right? So they had that also, where an older Peter comes, and it becomes this almost a more trusted, but then that trust is broken, right? That’s what happens.

That’s Spider-Man’s… I think that’s his stick. Whoever he clings onto is gonna betray him at some point, right? And we all

Nick: it’s one of the beats that they need.

joe: We watch the story, and you guys, we all, “No, he’s not gonna fall for it this time. This one’s gonna be different. He’s gonna, he’s gonna wise up.” I don’t know.

Nick: how many times can he fall for the

joe: we’ll be back. But I w- I was gonna say, you brought up Tom Holland. I think in there little MCU, [01:09:00] that, that love there. But he had the ferry scene where, I mean, his physical

Nick: Oh yeah

joe: he held that together and pulled it there. And then I think mental s- Alex, mental strength to go, “Yes, I’m gonna give up everyone knowing me,” all of the fame he has.

‘Cause he is, I mean, right, Spider-Man, some of it’s the neighborhood

Nick: He’s an Avenger.

joe: is known, right, all of that. And to go, “You know what? Yes just do it.” I’m a… The ultimate sacrifice there. Even his loved o- , everything. I mean, it’s this kind of the woman he loves, his best friend, all that.

It’s this, , so I think mentally and physically I’m gonna have to go there. I… Right, Miles, I think he has, the ability. But I think just package-wise and even Tom’s like, “Oh, I can’t wait to mentor,” that’s also that. But is that a mentor to betray, right? I mean, are we setting up?

Are we following our lines? You know, that would be but okay. But yeah, that’s… I would go with Tom, ’cause I think that, I think he

Nick: Tom’s a good choice.

Alex: Mm-hmm. Yeah, [01:10:00] so yeah I’m I’m divided because I love all the Spider-Men in all the movies, so it’s just like, ugh. But I-

Nick: The answer is yes.

Alex: The answer is yes.

Spider-Man wins.

but I feel like it, for me it’s between Tom Holland and Miles Morales

Just because, like, Tom Holland, I feel like the people he’s fought are, like, higher caliber than the other, like Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spider-Man.

He fought other Avengers, he fought Thanos, he fought in that big war, he’s going up against the Black Order and all that. And you know, but then you have Miles, who legit-

Nick: Fought

Alex: Spider-Man

Nick: survived

Alex: all the

Spiders.

joe: right.

Alex: He, like

he wasn’t fighting all of them, but he

was at least- It was a-

outmaneuvering- Yeah. however many, all of them, and then able to w- you know beat up Miguel O’Hara, the Spider-Man [01:11:00] 2099, like get him off him. So it’s just, like, so in terms of fighting Spider-Man, I feel like Miles Morales

joe: Yeah.

Alex: the, has the upper… Y- right? He can…

yeah. He’s like,

“You know, I don’t give a dang about

this multiverse thing.

I’m saving my daddy. All of this can burn.”

joe: Yeah

Alex: So I’ll, have to give it I’ll give it to Miles.

Nick: Hell yeah.

joe: Okay. There it is. There it is.

Nick: All right. Well Alex, thank you so

very much for

being here with us today. I know it was a bit for us to get

this arranged.

joe: It’s, alex, do you wanna, you have a great YouTube channel. You wanna give out the deets on that and talk about a little bit about what you do on your channel? It’s just some cool stuff, so.

Alex: Yeah. So, my t- YouTube channel’s called Hanes for Heroes, and pretty mu- my only goal for this channel is to get more people invested in the superhero genre because- Hell yeah … I love it so much. I need more people to talk to about it, and I love talking, and I love being, like, teaching people about it.

[01:12:00] So I like to bring up superheroes or storylines and basically teach people about them and try to garner that interest. And actually

this past month in June, I did my Superhero Pride Month challenge

where every day- Hell yeah … for the month of June I posted a superhero that was LGBTQ in one way or another. And so that was a lot of fun. A lot of people seemed to really enjoy that. So I just want to expand the fandom

and just get as many people in here as possible so we can have, like, those awesome movie events, you know, every time a Marvel movie comes out. ‘Cause that’s what makes this fun, dude.

That makes

it fun.

Nick: You got this

Alex: on point, man. You know, I wanna start having that for DC movies again, ’cause historically those

haven’t been great. So, you know, I’ve like, I want those loud theaters again , I want those lines- Hell yeah … wrapping around the building for superhero movies.

It’s just I love it so much, and I wanna share that with everyone.

joe: No, that’s awesome. Yeah, no, I A- hell yeah, man And yeah, [01:13:00] I think that’s really neat. And you brought up DC. We historically and this is season three for us, we haven’t given DC as much love as

Nick: I brought DC up

more in this episode than We,

ever

joe: had guests come on in the past that are like, “I’m gonna, I’m gonna be DC heavy and we’re gonna talk DC,” and then the episode just goes where Marvel, Image, like it’s like kinda what happened to DC?

Nick: just not easy.

joe: maybe season four we’ll have to coordinate a little bit and have you come back and let’s like dig into some DC. There’s some fun characters in there who deserve some conversate besides the big ones. , Spider-Man. Spider…

There I go. Superman,

Nick: you went, it, you said it. Marvel.

joe: Superman,

Nick: There we go

joe: I think you do have other characters who, are really cool. And you go, “Oh, yeah, they’re really nuanced.” and like a Spider-Man, they’re not just super powered or, , have this incredible backstory, but they’re, they are the everyday person [01:14:00] that we can empathize with.

So yeah, let’s… If you wanna come back we can have you come back on and do something. Do a DC thing, so.

Alex: Just let me know. Just let me know.

joe: Wonder pow- Wonder Twin powers activate, right? There we go, right? Is that,

Alex: there we go.

joe: Well, cool. On that note, you have me, Joe. Yeah.

Nick: You got

Nick

joe: got Nick.

Nick: we went down

some

hole

joe: safe, stay curious.

We love y’all

Nick: Bye-bye