Can a murder be solved across timelines? Author Lee Matthew Goldberg joins the Rabbit Hole crew to explore time travel, paradoxes, time machines, and mind-bending memory loops.
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Joe: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to the Rabbit Hole of Research down here in the basement studio for episode 41. We’ll be talking about crimes through time. You have the crew. You have me, Joe, you got
nick: Yeah. Got Nick. You’ve
Joe: got Nick. We’ve got Georgia, how you there?
geo: Hi there.
Joe: And we have a special guest joining us please.
Lee: Hi, I am Lee Matthew Goldberg. I’m an author. I have two young adult sci-fi books that just came out. And I’m so happy to be here.
Joe: Definitely. And
your books, they revolve around time. One of them miles in time, is that right? That’s the awesome,
Lee: Yes. Yeah.
the title definitely,
Joe: we played off of that Crimes in Time.
Lee: traveling. Yes.
Joe: Yeah. And with that I’ll go ahead and give my little opening definition. We’ll save the list for later. I don’t know. I’m not gonna break my.
My
nick: Can you actually do the [00:01:00] list first?
Joe: I don’t
geo: Yeah. Come on. I wanna hear list.
Joe: No. You guys gotta wait. I want build a tension for the list. Yeah. That’s
geo: what
all.
Joe: like, that’s the fans like.
Time is an absolute universal parameter that flows at a constant rate for all observers.
It provides the backdrop against which all events occur, a cosmic metronome. Indifferent to space or motion, and it’s perceived to flow forward a straight arrow, a line that moves from cause to effect or from crime to consequence. But what if it doesn’t? What if time bends loops, fractures? What happens to justice when yesterday can be edited and tomorrow can reach back to pull the trigger.
What if the criminal disappears into the past? So worse is the past. What about murders that haven’t happened yet? Alibis that exist in parallel timelines, evidence that loops forever. And a terrifying idea that some crimes have no beginning at all.
nick: Is it just me or have your what, your descriptions gotten a lot more wordy. I don’t know. I don’t know.
Joe: I don’t know. And are you giving me, are [00:02:00] you upset about these? No, I’m just Okay.
geo: I think I agree. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
geo: I think it probably depends on the
topic. Yeah.
Joe: It
geo: like time.
Time is very romantic,
nick: Romantic.
geo: Yeah. Like that concept of time.
No,
but I think you can real, I can think you can wax poetic about time and I
Joe: Yeah,
geo: that’s,
Lee: I agree. I was with it the whole time, Joe. Yeah, I was, I.
Joe: thank you. Thank you. I get a lot of shade here from my cohost. I feel like
Lee: Good though. It No, it keeps you working for Yeah.
geo: I feel like there’s a little bit of pressure though, ’cause you’ve you’ve said what we’re gonna talk about.
Joe: Maybe I don’t actually. I, that’s what I wanna talk about, but I as listeners, our listeners know that is not usually I don’t get my way. So that’s
geo: you just
nick: by
Joe: so I’m trying to prompt everyone to talk about what I want, but No, it’s
okay.
nick: I felt like. Yeah he’s really trying, that’s
geo: That’s
what I felt like. It was more like,
nick: he knows he can’t script me, so he [00:03:00] tries to,
Joe: maybe what I’ve done is I can actually time travel and I’ve gone back and I’ve created
geo: oh, so we’ve already done this episode and now you’ve gone back and
Joe: right.
I’ve already done it like,
Lee: it’s edited perfectly to fit the narrative. Yeah.
Joe: And every time someone messes up, then I gotta go many times have you done this, Joe?
right. This is so boring.
geo: Those
Joe: Wow. Those jokes are perfectly timed. Yep. That’s it. I ran on top of it.
geo: So I wanna say something really exciting. I did read your book
Lee: Awesome. I love that.
geo: and I
Lee: I love that.
geo: I really enjoyed it. But you will know, you can ask Nick and Joe I haven’t really read a lot of the other, you usually get more done than I do.
And I actually read the whole book. Yeah. So there,
Joe: I
nick: I had to
Lee: I really appreciate that. That means a lot.
Joe: I’ve read, I read the first three chapters, so I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna try to lie my way out of it. I no time travel. I’ll have to go back and catch it.
nick: I had to [00:04:00] restart recently. ’cause I, I started reading yours for a different episode and I’m like, wait, where am I?
geo: It was like time traveling. Yeah.
Lee: Right. It got you again.
It got you again.
nick: I’m just like, wait, what parts do I remember?
geo: So
yeah, I really enjoyed it. And so there’s a part one which I read, but then you said there’s a second one. So when did the first one come out?
Lee: So the first one came out about two months ago, I think May 6th, and then the second one came out about a month ago.
the publishers wanted ’em. Yeah, they wanted both out. Which great. But it’s also like a lot of PR that you have to do for a book.
geo: right,
Lee: Have to do double the amount of pr.
But yeah, no. And will there be a third one? Probably not, but you never know. But probably, yeah, I think the loop has closed
geo: But you never know.
Joe: You never know.
Lee: You [00:05:00] never know. And if it became like a, a franchise of movies, sure. I would write another I would
geo: because I was, I read it and then I looked and I was like, wait, there’s a second one. And so I was surprised. Yeah.
Lee: Yeah. I think it, it’s good marketing. I think a lot of times with indie publishers, they really have the ability to try different things out and see what works, what doesn’t. So yeah, no, it’s great. They’re both out.
nick: And how long have you been write writing for
Lee: Wait,
geo: the,
Lee: been writing, so my first book came out about 10 years ago. My first book slowed down. But I’ve been writing since I was like a little kid. It’s always been what I’ve wanted to do with my life. I think I was saying, I used to write books about my dog getting in like a jam. I was always prepping to be a thriller author.
And then now I have these sci-fi books.
Joe: Yeah,
nick: So did your first book have anything to do with time too? ’cause it sounds like it might
Lee: Slowdown, no slowdown was just set in the present time. But books I’ve been working on for a long time, [00:06:00] so a lot of times, like a book is in the back of my mind while I’m working on another one. And both of these books were I
was figuring them out while I was writing other things. They just took a little longer to marinate.
nick: Oh yeah.
geo: And then I was looking, I think I was looking at some of your other books. Don’t you have something that’s a time travel, but it was like during the Gold Rush or
Lee: Yeah. So my book, the Ancestor it’s my favorite, it’s set in the present time, but it’s about a man who wakes up in the Alaskan wilderness with amnesia and he thinks he’s been stuck in time since the Alaskan Gold Rush. And he sees a man that looks just like him. Follows him home and it brings him like a rush of memories of his wife, his child, but all from back in the late 18 hundreds.
And so he becomes obsessed with this man more and more. The more time he spends with him, the more he remembers about his family. And then he remembers he left like a massive amount of gold somewhere in the wilderness, so he has to [00:07:00] go find it. So it plays with time travel and whether you could really be, stuck in time for a hundred something years.
geo: Okay.
Joe: This brings up some of the paradoxes in time travel. So you get your first of many lists, I
geo: was gonna say that sounds like a list.
Joe: No. And so you have the kind of classic ones is the, like the grandfather paradox where you travel back and you prevent Yeah. Preventing your grandfather’s existence, prevent your own or grandmother or anyone in your
nick: wait, so this isn’t the one where you become your own grandfather?
Joe: No, that’s, this isn’t,
geo: oh,
Joe: is that Futurama?
Wasn’t that a
Futurama episode?
nick: Yes, it is.
Joe: It’s been a while since we had a Futurama reference
nick: I know, right? I couldn’t really shove Tama in all the fantastic four
Joe: well maybe.
Then we have the Bootstrap Paradox. It’s an object or information exists without or origin. And so that one, it raises issues of intellectual property. This is the same [00:08:00] as a gin principle, which is a theoretical that an object’s introduced that doesn’t really have a start origin.
So you don’t know. And the classic was the Christopher
geo: I was gonna say the penny. No, I thought I was
Joe: exists.
And so who actually, when was the watch created? Was it created in his time or in the pastime? And you just have this loop where now an object has
geo: Oh, okay.
Origin. So because there was that penny. This is actually a spoiler.
Joe: It’s older than
20 years.
So,
geo: But they see, he sees the penny from the modern times. And that kind of throws everything off.
but that penny, you know where it came from, right? So it, doesn’t, that’s right.
Joe: It’s not it would not be the a bootstrap paradox or the gin particle kind of paradox. I was gonna say the other one, the other classic bootstrap para bootstrap paradox is in Back to the Future with Johnny B. Good and Chuck Berry, and he [00:09:00] goes, oh, listen, this is the sound you’re listening for.
So now the origin of, that music is, it really doesn’t have an origin because it’ll now be in this loop of just being created.
nick: stop me if we’ve had this conversation before. I don’t know if it was on air or off air, but didn’t it have to start somewhere? Because the start of that loop was when Marty McFly had heard it originally,
Joe: right?
Yes.
nick: And that was pre him going back in
Joe: right? Yes. But
now,
nick: it’s, we saw the start of it.
Joe: You know the start because, that’s the fun of it. You actually know Chuck Berry and his music, and you, we know he created it. But in that. Back
to the future world, it would be now just looped like, where did this music come from?
Because Chuck Berry technically didn’t create it now ’cause he just listened to the sound that some kid was playing on stage and
has reproduced it. So
geo: the question
Joe: so now you have this kind of weird loop because now the origin of it, and now you go in time, he now is, becomes famous [00:10:00] Chuck Berry. And then that loops back.
And
geo: I think it would depend on how much music he had done before that moment.
Joe: it didn’t look like he had done a lot. He was like in, in like his mom’s basement or something. I don’t know.
nick: Also, wouldn’t it make him like stealing IP at that point? That’s
Joe: what I said. You have an intellectual property thing and then Marty consume for, oh, okay. That’s,
geo: know there’s
enough
Joe: problems with Back to the future. I was gonna say that the one that kind of went to Penny and even the, your other story is the temporal identity conflicts where you meet past future selves. And, it raises questions about memory continuity, legal personhood and identity.
And so you have this whole, these moments in time. And then we have the pedestrian paradox. Attempting to change the past actually causes the event you’re trying to avoid. And probably one of the famous examples is 12 Monkeys.
Lee: I love,
Joe: think that one that’s, yeah, that’s a good one. So yeah, just some [00:11:00] paradoxes that you have to, so when you were writing your story, did you think about a paradox or did you just dive in and let the story, just take it where it goes without
spoiling it,
Lee: He, the in, in the Y book, he finds a, almost like in Beetlejuice or they find like about the other side, a book about it. He finds a book about what to do and what not to do in time travel. And his brother’s a genius inventor, so he like leaves it for him. So like one of the things is you should never run into your past self.
And my character is like f that like my past self maybe help me out
Joe: So Lee, I don’t want to cut you off, but maybe for listeners, could you give
Lee: Oh, I’m
Joe: synopsis of the story so that every, we all, I think we all know what it’s
about, but
I realize we’ve been talking
for a while. Oh, there’s miles in time travel and ta
geo: da.
Lee: Totally my bad. Um, So
Joe: just a bad host.
Sorry.
Lee: in, in Miles in time it’s set [00:12:00] in present time in Iowa and it’s about a 14-year-old kid named Miles. His older brother is a genius inventor. He may be working on a time machine and his older brother is murdered. And through kind of a code that the brother shared, he’s giving clues to where the time machine is.
Told to go back in time for a week, figure out who murdered him and save his life. So hence the book, the do’s and don’ts of time travel that the brother leaves for miles. So one of the things I said was to not meet your past self, but Miles is like an amateur sleuth. He’s a detective and he feels like he could use his past self.
So the two of them actually worked together to solve a lot of the mystery together. So I threw out a lot of the rules that I had seen before and other things, but, it’s like, it’s a kid’s book, it’s fun. I didn’t want to get fired too much in a complete believability, so yeah,
geo: Yeah.
That was one of the things that I was gonna bring up. But then I was like, I don’t know if I don’t think this a spoiler. And anyway, he did
Lee: no, you can say it. Yeah.[00:13:00]
Joe: But
geo: But yeah. I thought that was interesting that he did team up with his past self, because that is, I think that’s just so drilled into you Yeah.
That you
Lee: Yeah.
Joe: not, you’re gonna explode
Lee: And like who Who made that rule? Who really knows if that’s an actual thing
Joe: It’s a very convenient plot device. Not to
Lee: Exactly. So I don’t know, I just wanted to flip the script on time. Travel has been done so much in books and TV movies. So a lot of me was just trying to figure out like what kind of new could I do with it?
What kind of new things could I say about it? Also like being a real mystery at heart. ’cause he is an amateur Sherlock Holmes and I wanted it to be like a, who done it first and foremost.
Joe: You, it have to be a nice kind of. Having your own self in the time or the past time that you can consult with, because that kind of prevents your own memories from being corrupted during the time travel. So we have all this, like we were just [00:14:00] talking about the jinn particle, and things can now have a non origin.
And so it is, it would be useful to have someone that knows, oh, this is truly the origin of this thing, or this truly is a piece of evidence, not something that we’ve created. Because I guess through time travel, one could disrupt a change in time and then create another outcome or an event that then would have consequences in that
geo: Yeah. I think the other thing about this story is the fact that he only goes back a week.
Do
you know what I mean? I think that you mentioned that, so
Joe: back to when he is like a
geo: so it’s like you look pretty much the same and Yeah. And yeah.
Lee: But they also are so different
Them has experienced the loss of his brother with that week and around that plus also going back in time. The other one is naive than miles from a week ago. So even though they’re only a week apart, like they couldn’t be more different. And I think they’re able to play off each [00:15:00] other like one’s innocence helps the other kind of almost grizzled, hardened detective even a week later from what he’s experienced.
Joe: Now could the past miles swap and go into the future or does that happen in the story? Sorry, I don’t want to spoil it.
geo: You have to read it and find out,
Lee: you’ll have to read it. Yeah, that’s a spoil there.
Joe: I hit on
geo: I do think that it made my mind went a little bit like when I’m thinking about time travel and then Okay. So, dark matter.
Joe: Blake Crouch? Yeah.
geo: that show, I really I read the book and saw the show, but that one really freaks me out. ’cause have you read it or seen it?
Lee: Yeah. Both. Both.
geo: because then all of a sudden, because there are all these other timelines, now all of a sudden there is like tons of, there’s a lot more of him. You know what I
mean? Yeah.
But that,
Lee: think they
want like a second [00:16:00] season and a third season and
Joe: I don’t think they were traveling through time, per se.
geo: Okay. I, they were,
Joe: They were all at the, they were all at present time. They were just, they were manipulating the multiverse idea. Not a time. They weren’t going back in time. So the split and you got all the hundreds of
geo: Oh, so
didn’t travel in different times at all. It was all in that same moment.
Joe: And the kind of, the idea they were, the hypothesis idea that they were playing off of was that when you make a conscious decision, then you would split that reality because now they’re, like stroger’s cat, is it alive or dead?
But when you make the observation, it then picks a path, but the other path also could create in a different dimension.
And so in
nick: in a different time where you actually chose
Joe: right. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. And so you would get all these hundreds of people because as you’re making decisions. You would keep splitting yourself and create another dimension.
But a lot of those would still try to come back to the same, so you had all these, I forget his name, trying to [00:17:00] find home. And so every time he made a decision that one and it, their dimension was trying to find home and they just all wound up in his home at some point in time. And so that’s why you had this whole thing, at that they didn’t, they rushed that, in the episodes, I think they really I think it was like eight episodes and it was like, boom, now we have hundreds of people and they’re taking a vote and things like that.
Yep. I don’t wanna spoil that either ’cause that’s,
geo: yeah, that’s fairly new. Sorry.
nick: I honestly don’t think I’d be able to work with myself if I went back in time. I forget everything already, like,
Joe: That would be good though, because you But maybe two of you.
Lee: Yeah, two of you could help each other. Remember what you forget.
nick: The two of us would just be like, what happened? I have no clue what happened.
Joe: the George’s point, you could actually think about it this way. What if you started going back at intervals of a day and picking up your past selves? And let’s keep going
geo: I know. I was gonna say then what if you,
Joe: Nicks
geo: If you didn’t travel back to your [00:18:00] present day, right? And you just kept living in that time, you are only a week behind and then there’s two of you,
Joe: And if you go another week, you got three of you and four, or you can fractionate it even more. So in a week you would have seven. Like I don’t know. We’re now getting crazy.
Your time machine’s gotta be pretty big or however you’re traveling.
nick: lot of handwaving going on with
Joe: A lot of folks in that DeLorean. Time travel is, yeah, a lot of hand wave. And at DeLorean, pack ’em in. You gotta have
geo: so there’s
Joe: a Yukon
geo: are you saying the plausibility of time Travel is very low.
Joe: Yes. We’ve discussed this in a
geo: I actually was not on the time travel episode and I was Yeah. And I wasn’t on the Doctor who episode either.
go.
Joe: So Lee should feel very special that Georgia chose the dress. No, I the book
Lee: read the book. Yeah.
nick: you got fully prepared. Right. That’s a,
Lee: fully
Joe: beat out Nick and I on the reading part and here No, I was gonna say,
Lee: right after this you’re [00:19:00] gonna want to pick it up. the, that’s the
geo: right. that’s right.
Joe: Or finish it. I guess I gotta keep. Plowing through it. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say the one show, and it came out in 2019, a movie spike Lee, I don’t know if he was the director or producer, but see you yesterday.
And that had a very similar vibe.
about
that. And that’s the
one
geo: good. Yeah. Where
Joe: her brother is killed through, I think, was it police violence or crime, like some
geo: I know he’s shot,
Joe: incident. He got shot wrongfully it felt like it was this wrong place, wrong time. And so she was an inventor was going back to try to correct that.
And so you had that whole, paradox there that it was almost like everything she was trying would lead to the event or just miss it. And it was a very,
geo: well, it made other horrible things happen.
Joe: So that kind of, that pedestrian
nick: does that also fall under the butterfly effect then?
Joe: a small thing that leads to other changes? I guess you could, yes. [00:20:00] Because if you go, that’s one interesting things about the time travel in my mind that when you go back you almost can’t leave the environment unchanged
nick: you being there.
Joe: That’s right. Yep. Yep. So you would definitely have that happen as
nick: you being there already
Joe: All right. Changes everything.
You’ve introduced just breathing, you’ve introduced stuff contaminate to that timeline, so let’s use that. Contaminant, yes.
You contaminate
geo: you’re bringing back like some weird
Joe: No, you’ve introduced, right?
So you’ve just going there and you’re dander off your skin, breathing your breath into the air, or breathing in.
You’ve now contaminated the timeline
nick: and then whatever pollution that’s different and blah, blah, blah, blah,
Joe: Yeah.
nick: You don’t Well, oh
geo: I don’t know. He’s weird this
nick: I agree with him on this one.
This is a
geo: particular story, he goes back to the same place that he was. So it’s not like he’s going to some foreign land.
Joe: Yeah, [00:21:00] but you yourself, the minute that you step, like in any environment, like when the minute you come into the room, like just like present time, let’s keep it there. You come into the room, you’ve changed the environment
geo: At least you didn’t say I contaminated it.
Joe: Sec, if it was a clean room, you did. So if you come, go into a clean room, you’ve contaminated. So you have contaminated with yourself. We all have as you come in and leave and go and be in the world. So that same principle exists if you time travel and you go back, even go back minutes.
That timeline has been contaminated by a new, similar, but different Georgia that came into that
timeline. That make sense? Yeah. Lee, what do you guys say? Are you,
Lee: Also that’s what creates a good story. If there was a way to go back in time and nothing was altered, there’d be no stories about time travel. In every story something gets affected, which causes something else to get effective, et cetera. I think in my [00:22:00] books. It’s like they try to do as little as possible with affecting the most change for them and not for a global atmosphere.
But they’re not successful at that either. Like, like of course they’re gonna do something that’s gonna create a bigger kind of effect and change.
Joe: a ripple effect
Lee: Yeah. And in the
second book, they go back in the second book, they go back into the nineties
to fix their family, so their family has issues.
So they go back in time when the issues began for the parents. And then it was just a fun way to go back to 1999. So
Did it.
geo: So did you think a lot about the plausibility or the science or was that something Yeah,
Lee: I definitely read a lot of time travel books. I watched a lot of movies that connected to it. Some of the ones that you mentioned, Joe, like 12 Monkeys. But also because the books are, adults have been reading them and honestly probably more than kids, but I really wanted to keep the the age, like 12 and up.
[00:23:00] So I didn’t wanna do too much, like I didn’t wanna overload 12 year olds with any kind of mathematics or anything that would bore me.
I kinda left out it. yeah.
Yeah. I think there’s nods to certain things here and there. He reads I might be mispronouncing it, but Godell, who is like a philosopher or scientist about time travel.
So that’s the passcode that he uses. So little things here and there, I kinda added into the books. But I’m not so smart in, in terms of science, math, but I didn’t wanna yeah, I didn’t wanna bite off more than I could chew in terms of
nick: You didn’t want a 14-year-old scrolling on the floor. All the mathematics of. The
Lee: Didn’t wanna. Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t want a 14-year-old being like, this guy doesn’t know what he is talking about.
geo: But it, kind of as simple as possible,
In general there, the sciences, there isn’t a lot of science.
Lee: Yeah. We have not traveled back in
Joe: No one’s done it.
nick: that we know of.
Joe: Yeah.
Lee: that we know of. That’s true.
Joe: Yes. No, that’s,
Lee: for the most part it’s speculation and, that’s good for a fictional author. [00:24:00] Like when there’s stuff that’s only been speculated, you could make things up as you go. It’s why writing sci-fi is fun.
nick: Just to be able to have that freedom of the unknown and
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. I’m creating worlds and like I said, most of my books are thrillers, but I’m more interested in moving towards. Sci-fi, the one I’m working on now has a little kind of like horror bent to it, but a little
supernatural. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna play around with it. I might do it under a pen name though, and then have separate.
Joe: from your, yeah.
nick: Is
that gonna be a ya a book as well or is it gonna be
Lee: No I don’t think I’m doing Y again. I think this is it. Yeah, you’re limited, there’s certain things you can’t do and I mostly write more disturbing thrillers. So I had to play a little, almost too nice for these where I want to go back to what I like to do.
geo: And I do think this had a lot more edge and it was the, but one of my favorite books when I was little and this [00:25:00] I’m somewhat dating myself, but also it was a really old book even then.
But have you ever heard of Homer Price?
Lee: That sounds familiar.
Joe: Yes.
geo: And I love those books, Homer Price and they’re illustrated by the guy that, that wrote that book Make Way for Ducklings.
Do you know that?
Lee: Okay.
nick: No.
geo: favorite make Way for Ducklings. No.
we might, we probably have that back there. No, but anyway,
Joe: It’s a time travel book.
geo: Anyways, I love the illustrations, but it’s like this kid, and he lives in a pretty rural area, but then it, like, all the little stories in it are things that happen and he has to solve these little mysteries and stuff.
So it really, it, I don’t know why it, it brought that to mind when I read ’cause there was something of a, there was an innocence to it,
Lee: yeah. Yeah, I wanted also, thank you. I wanted like a nostalgia factor and especially with the sequel the sequel kind of was when I was in high school, so like they go back to. At the [00:26:00] time that I remembered really well in terms of when I was that age. So yeah, I think anytime, a book connects you to nostalgia.
My favorite books as a kid were ULA and the Celery Stocks at Midnight by Deborah and James Howe about the kind of vampire bunny.
geo: oh yes. Okay.
Lee: those are my favorite
Joe: Very neat. I was gonna say,
Lee: adventure
Joe: Go ahead Lee. What was that
Lee: I’m saying and all the choose your own adventure
Joe: Yeah.
geo: Oh yeah,
definitely bump.
nick: Goosebump C Cho adventures were so good.
Joe: Yeah,
Lee: so I just was on a panel that I moderated last week at Thriller Fest and RL Stein was on the panel from
geo: Oh, that’s so fun.
Lee: was the best. He was like, we’re just gonna treat it like a standup comedy routine. And I was like, all
geo: that’s so fun.
Lee: Yeah, no, he was really funny. And he is very sweet. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
That’s cool. Your second guest that was on that.
was
in conversation
with Oh yeah,
Earl Stein. Yeah.
Lee: Oh yeah.
nick: about
that. Yeah.
Yeah. Jonathan Mayberry was had to [00:27:00] reschedule one of our recordings to go do an interview with
Joe: a
geo: he was doing An event.
Yeah. In
Joe: In conversation with,
geo: Stein.
Joe: or Earl Stein. Yeah. No, look at that.
He is
geo: I think we need
to get Stein on
Joe: Yeah. The universe is speaking to us. Our time travel from the future. I was gonna say we were talking about research and things and one that came to mind was the, I guess a mockumentary the history of time
geo: Oh, that was really good. Is
nick: that what mark du plus,
Joe: don’t, I don’t know who was in it. Yeah. It was the whole thing was about the creation of the time machine. And so this group, a group of or scientists makes a time machine and uses it, and then every time they use it. You see all these changes.
So like the Russians get to the moon first, or in technology, like the first
geo: it was really, it was a very clever
Joe: because the background,
Lee: was the name again?
Joe: The history of time travel.
Lee: History of
Joe: Time travel. it was
like, I think it was like 20 14, 20 15. Somewhere in that
ballpark.
geo: little [00:28:00] Easter eggs that were subtle, but like the pictures on the wall would then change when they’re like
Joe: or like the video game consoles that they use to build the time machine with to control it.
You start and you keep seeing it modify and yeah, it was, and then they go back to destroy the plans ’cause it’s ruining everything. So you have this whole
geo: yeah, it was really good
Joe: And then it, yeah, I don’t wanna spoil
geo: Yeah. Don’t spoil it.
nick: I think the one I was thinking of was safety not guaranteed with Mark
Lee: Oh, that’s a good one.
nick: And Rey Plaza,
Lee: I’ll be pause it. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
nick: Guy puts an ad in was gonna say about the ad. Yeah, Okay. Yeah.
Joe: Yep.
nick: yeah.
Was was definitely one of those time travel movies where I’m like, oh, that’s really good. Fun little adventure, trying to build a time machine as well. And everyone thinks he’s crazy.
He might be right. Mm-hmm.
Joe: We could just
Lee: That I love primer. It’s about
nick: Yes.
Lee: 20 years ago, I wanna say. Yeah, it was a small movie. I’m forgetting the director’s name. [00:29:00] Shane. Shane something. But it’s really good if you’re able I don’t even know if you could find it like beyond, probably like on DVD or something. But it’s great.
Joe: Yeah.
We’ll put
it in
nick: watch it on YouTube and
it’s
$3.
Lee: true.
nick: Oh,
geo: nice.
nick: Uh, Shane Cirth. Kth.
Lee: Yeah, with a C. Yeah.
nick: Is
Lee: then he did another movie that was like just as weird, not as good, but also interesting. And then that was it.
nick: Yeah. Primer was definitely one of those that were like, whoa. And
Joe: didn’t see
Lee: And probably made for $200,000. Like it was
really well made for how cheap it was.
nick: And still underrated,
Lee: Yeah, no, completely. Completely.
nick: my train of thought for a second. ’cause I kept thinking of primer.
Joe: Let’s go back.
Lee: That’s fair.
That’s
nick: like,
Joe: We got time travel back.
A couple
nick: all [00:30:00] brought me back on that movie and I’m like, Ooh.
Joe: I was gonna, I was gonna mention, ’cause we it came up in the conversation but just time travel the mind.
And how that can be a form of time travel where you don’t, it’s all just a construct. ’cause your brain can fa fast forward and imagine events, but also in the past you know it, which is somewhat corruptible. And so just in your own head, you could have a whole time travel esque story where you’re, in this loop, this mental loop of time travel.
And you have that. I don’t know if, I don’t think there’s any stories like that where you’re
nick: 51st Dates
Joe: That’s a,
I guess it would
nick: yep. 51st states
falls into that
geo: now what are you saying that you keep reliving something in your right.
Joe: not necessarily reliving it, but that the time travel component is more mental than almost in your brain than being [00:31:00] a physical manifestation of you traveling back into the past or into the future.
nick: which I.
I would think that 51st dates is Drew Barry Moore’s character is time traveling every day. She wakes up then.
geo: is that like Groundhogs Day?
nick: No.
What
she gets hit in the
Joe: Groundhog’s Day is a form of time travel.
he is time traveling back to the beginning of the day. but just keeps repeating and repeating. Keeps
it. He just keeps repeating
one day. Just over and over.
nick: Yeah.
Joe: And maintaining the knowledge of
nick: The previous day. 24 hours. Yeah.
Yeah. Previous experience.
Joe: Previous experience. There’s another one where they were stuck in a hotel. There’s been a few like that.
Lee: Oh
Joe: They were in, in a
Lee: yeah, with Andy Sandberg.
nick: palms.
No. Was
Lee: That one was great. Yeah. Palm Springs was that.
nick: was that it? I wanted to say that, but I was
Lee: was, it was like at the pandemic when it
came.
So like, it was
But I don’t have a memory around it.
Joe: It was like, oh, it was like time travel the
Lee: it was [00:32:00] really good. It
was,
Joe: right? Yeah. That was good. I’ll look it up and get that in the show notes too. A lot of good movies for time travel.
nick: Oh, a hundred percent. Like it’s such a
Lee: fun one to an argument, you could make an argument that every time you have a memory, technically it’s time travel.
nick: Yeah, I And that, that was the case of the
geo: the, and
Lee: Every memory you’re going back in, in time.
Joe: You are.
Lee: Even if the memory changed,
Joe: you do you will corrupt memories. So as you access memories, you can rewrite ’em. They’re not fixed in time. So it’s every time you pull a file out, you can make an edit, then put it back, and then when you pull it out again you go, oh, it was blue.
We, it was, we were driving a blue car Right,
it was red. So did you, to that point, did you time travel in a blue car? But now you’re in this, now in this
other timeline.
nick: E even sense can help can take you back in time.
Lee: Oh, yeah.
nick: Oui where the critic,
He had the oui and he was like,
And he
Joe: I think OU [00:33:00] has put a little bit of crack in his food.
Lee: they have said
that like.
nick: poison.
Joe: I think he was like, oh yeah,
ahead.
nick: say, Lee? I’m sorry.
Lee: Say, I can’t remember if what they say about deja vu is that deja vu. Oh, I not, this connects to dark matter. The deja vu could be a memory almost of a different slight multiverse of where you’ve Just the same, but something’s like a little off.
nick: So it’s that split in, thought process then. All right, one of us is doing this, but the other one is doing this.
Joe: Or, we’re in the matrix.
nick: Yes. Or it’s a glitch.
geo: could, it.
could be a simulation, say
Joe: deja vu,
Lee: Yeah. Look, it could be everything. We could be in a simulation that’s time traveling
Joe: Time travel, yes.
Lee: It itself, in a black hole again and again. Yeah. You don’t know?
geo: And then when you were talking about memories, it made me think of [00:34:00] the mento because in a way, he time traveled because he forgot everything and then had to go back and figure
Joe: 51st dates? Yes.
nick: Barrymore,
Joe: Yeah.
geo: I think I saw, I think I saw that.
Joe: And you keep going back to that Same. I can’t remember if I’ve seen that movie or not. I don’t think I’ve
nick: It’s been years and a half, but for some reason that movie popped movie mind. It stuck
geo: with It Stuck with you?
Lee: It’s a well-known movie. Yeah. It’s a beloved
movie.
nick: don’t know if it popped up on
Joe: they don’t describe it as a time travel movie, but I think they should. It probably would be more popular.
dunno. Adam Sandler? I don’t know how popular his movies are nowadays.
shoot. What? Laying a Shade down on,
nick: Sand, it’s not his nineties films where it was like, oh, every one of those was a hit. Yeah. Barrymore.
Lee: 50. First date was probably like the beginning of the end, yeah. Then he got a Netflix deal and he just started cranking him out
nick: oh yeah he’s
Lee: and like more power [00:35:00] to him, like I’m sure they paid him $50 million to do nothing.
nick: I would you get to hang out with your friends all day and Yeah,
Lee: Happy Gilmore too is coming out. I don’t have high hopes,
geo: that’s probably it.
Joe: with? Chris Rock and
nick: oh, grownups.
Joe: Grownups.
yeah. Then grownups
Lee: grownups. Yeah. Billy Madison is a classic. That was great. The weddings,
nick: the wedding
Joe: Wedding singer,
nick: Now we’re just time traveling through
Joe: The water boy. Yeah. There it
geo: we’re all reminiscing.
Joe: oh, remember when?
geo: I,
Lee: He and Chris Farley used to do this sketch on Saturday Night Live where they were like an old married, like couple, and they would read the GATS reviews and then just like shit on all the reviews. And it might be my favorite thing
nick: But
Lee: Chris Farley played the wife
she was like the positive one, and Adam Sandler was like the cranky, like old man.
geo: awesome.
nick: Oh, those were fun [00:36:00] ones. I miss those. But for I honestly think that there can be some kind of. Mental time travel though. Like I feel like out of all of them, that one might be the one that I can Get behind and being like,
go.
This is in the realm of plausibility
Joe: except I think it, when you start going down that road it’s your memory versus everyone else’s memory, right?
Yes. And so that becomes,
nick: because what was that movie with Jim Carrey?
He was a erasing Memories.
geo: Oh
Joe: Sunshine of a Spotless Mind.
nick: Would that be considered a time travel movie then?
Joe: I don’t
know if it’s time you,
nick: going back in his mind and
Joe: in his mind,
the way the movie was filmed and the story was told, you do have a lot of flashbacks where you’re going and you at some points in that movie, and it’s been a little bit since I watched it, but you were you were questioning where you’re in present.
’cause they almost fell back in love again. Because all their members are erased. Then they went back, so they reset and then they [00:37:00] fell in love. So you really didn’t have, you’re right, it was more mental. ’cause they didn’t chronologically go back, six months to the beginning of the relationship.
They just met each other and it was that kind of chemistry re-sparked and they had, they moved forward from there. So in some ways, yes, they reset. It’s
geo: It’s more of the talking about it like, like memories. Obviously
was saying yeah.
nick: of all of them, I think the memory one is in the realm of possibility.
Joe: That’s not a true chronological, you’re not really. Going back. I, in some ways you are, but you’re not really
nick: but trying to relive those memories in your head, that other person isn’t there.
So it’s changing your history.
Lee: Yeah,
nick: It’s just on a more
Lee: time travel element. There’s definitely time travel elements
nick: It’s just a personal time travel where no one else in your life is affected by it.
Other
Lee: There’s also the butterfly effect as well in that one [00:38:00] because their relationship changes due to the memories being erased as well.
geo: Yeah.
nick: Yeah. That’s the one where I’m like, it’s one of those not classified as a time travel, but probably is a time travel film. Like there, there’s so many of those that.
Fall into that category, like 51st dates and momentum. Is Momento considered a time travel movie?
geo: Momento.
Joe: Momento? No. It’s not a
time
geo: No, it’s a more It is his, he has that short term memory loss,
Joe: right?
nick: Which
Going by
geo: oh,
Joe: uhoh.
nick: I’m waving my hands around here and just,
Joe: a lot of hand waving ’em
nick: Yeah.
full hands tonight.
Joe: I was gonna say that we’re talking about.
Going in back into the past, but really that theoretically the math suggests you’ll actually be able to go forward
In time,[00:39:00]
nick: I think going forward is a better idea than going to the past. Like personally, I don’t think there’s anything in the past that I’m like, yes, I need to go to that.
Joe: There’s a lot of bad stuff in the past. Yeah. That I’d wanna
geo: And so you are hopeful that you are hopeful that the future may be better?
nick: Or I’m just dead in space. I don’t know.
Space.
Joe: in space.
nick: Yeah. If you go for
Joe: Hopefully you’ve done the math and you calculated Yeah. Where you need to land. Because you’re right If you miscalculate, then you’re are moving. Yes. You’ll be in a wall. Like you’re off a little bit. You’re just in a wall now can someone get me outta the drywall please?
nick: I’ve been splitting two.
Joe: Yeah. Why is someone, why is our walls talking all of a sudden? Sounds like Nick. No, I, so I think forward time travel, but it’s maybe not as interesting.
I don’t know. Maybe that’s why. ’cause usually either you’re forward time traveling, you learn something, oh man, [00:40:00] this meteorites gonna smash into the earth. And then you go back to convince people that you’re not, crazy and
you
geo: a Terminator,
Lee: Yeah.
Joe: Like Terminator. But they, when the machine is trying to kill you, I don’t know if you need a lot of convincing, not.
There’s a sophisticated AI machine hell bent to kill humans. Or
Sarah Kana
Lee: two.
Joe: particular.
Lee: Terminator two is still one of the greatest movies ever
nick: Yes,
geo: I think so. I love
Lee: just perfect. It looks fantastic. It like,
Joe: Yeah.
Lee: tens across the board.
Joe: when I was, this goes to, we’ve had this discussion about movies where the sequel is as good or better than the original. The first movie in the series. And I think the consensus we
Lee: one is great, but Terminator
Joe: two is, yep. Alien Aliens.
nick: Nope, we disagree with that one.
Joe: Superman.
Lee: Those are both good in their own
Joe: as good, [00:41:00] and I was going to say the discussion, Nick and I, we’ve come to some agreement I think, is that usually when you have that.
Is that the style of the movie changes,
it
off. So you have, alien was a horror, aliens was action. I think you can say the same thing about Terminator and Terminator two. Terminator one was more almost a horror thriller. And two was as action. It was, so you have that, the split between the movies and I think it is, it’s really, it’s well done.
I think if you’re writing a sequel, that’s a good way to go is to
Lee: Yeah. And then smart because it keeps enough of it the same, but also takes it in a different direction. So I think the audience wants something a little bit new from a sequel. So I feel like whenever they do that and do that right, it tends to be
Joe: Yeah. Yeah.
Lee: A lot of times they do it wrong though.
Like in the sequel, like I just saw yesterday, I saw that the Megan
sequel
Joe: yeah, I heard it.
Lee: That was an terrible movie.
Yeah.
nick: I forgot. That was already,
Joe: right. Yeah. [00:42:00] Yeah,
nick: I liked the first one. I just have not
Lee: one was fun and dumb, and then second one is like a full action movie and it’s just doesn’t work.
It’s
Joe: I think you, you have that with Slashers genre in general. You know that the second one is usually he just goes all
geo: or do you mean the 10th one
Joe: or to Yes.
Depending on the But I wanted it camper. Like I wanted,
Lee: Feel like that movie worked the best. It was leaning into its stupidity. Yeah.
But this one would have moments and then it would like veer from
Joe: Start taking yourself serious. Then you
Lee: A little bit. Like it had something to say about ai. It was like, I really need that from you, Megan.
Joe: Yeah.
Don’t need it.
Lee: we’re good. Just Yeah.
geo: we already know we’re
screwed.
Lee: Yes, it was. It was a Megan Ted talk. That was the vibe.
Joe: it is. They should lead with that. And that probably would get ’em some more fans.
Lee: Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe: No. Yeah. I think, yeah, forward time travel’s interesting. But yeah, the [00:43:00] storylines
nick: yeah.
geo: Yeah. So if you had to pick one, you would pick forward.
nick: Yeah. I have zero reason to go to the past. There’s nothing good back
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. Lee, how about yourself?
Where you
Lee: don’t know. I don’t know if I want to like to know the future and then have to deal with it. I don’t know.
nick: I just know going forward in time, you’re gonna either a die because of whatever kind of diseases are there now, or B, bring diseases that you already have now in the present
Lee: You’ll contaminate. You’ll fully
geo: go
Joe: contaminate to the
nick: the, you’re the,
Joe: so I, the question, and we will come, I’ll ask Lee and we can, George and I can answer, but how far are you going?
nick: Oh
Lee: If we’re already doing it, let me go like far, like I don’t want to go like 20 years. Let me really see 500 years
Joe: You are like time machine, like you’re going 10,000
Lee: yeah. Like
Joe: You’re
nick: I want 1000 years in the future. Thank you. Go full Futurama.
Lee: about right.
Joe: And hope your bank is still exists,
like, you know
nick: exactly.
geo: Like in Futurama, right?
Joe: Yeah.[00:44:00]
nick: We’re Fry going fu
Joe: I’m a billionaire.
nick: The full Futurama. How much is my interest now?
Joe: Yeah, so you’re going forward a thousand years, Georgia you did, you
geo: I don’t
nick: Lee’s going 5,000. Lee.
Joe: Lee, you said 500 or 5,000.
Lee: Yeah. That 5,000 might be,
yeah, like
Joe: forward, you’re
Lee: 500 and a thousand enough where it’s different. But I don’t want like Sea
Joe: Yeah,
Lee: Earth or any, yeah.
Joe: but so you’re going forward not backwards. Is your
Lee: For me.
Yeah,
I don’t know. I’ve written historical books, so Sure. I think it’d be cool to, like we were talking before about the Alaskan gold rush, like to go to an or. I’ve spent so much time researching. I feel like that would be really interesting. But yeah, sure. Let me go a thousand years in the
Joe: Future.
Okay. So we’re there. Yeah. ’cause going back to the gold rush, it seems like a hard life, even if you’re just
Lee: Really cold, like
Joe: like the vacation you don’t really want, like you
Lee: It’s not so much a vacation, like killing bear and eating bear and
Joe: [00:45:00] a, yeah. That’s a rough, that’s a
Lee: Let me go to a spot in the future if that.
Joe: There it is.
geo: gosh, I don’t know. That’s really tough because I feel like you’re really like just totally
no
control.
nick: Hopefully in the future.
they’ll have a Westworld type thing going
geo: No, It’s called Future world.
Joe: Future world
nick: Yeah. No, but I, in the future, I want a Westworld type.
Joe: Oh, I see. Yeah. You want to go to the future for the Yeah.
nick: That way I don’t have to deal with all the stuff of the past
geo: But you can experience it.
Joe: All right.
geo: Interesting. But you do know some of the complications that happened?
nick: bad happens. I don’t know what, I’d never, I didn’t finish the show, don’t worry. I can guarantee nothing it was a movie I’m actually going back to the 19th, whatever. Was it seventies?
Joe: You were going back to the seventies?
geo: No, not in the time. Travel. In the, talking about Westworld. Whenever the Westworld movie
Lee: Oh.
Joe: So you want, [00:46:00] so you, instead of Westworld, you want to go back to seventies?
geo: No, I, no.
Joe: Seventies world.
Lee: You want there to be a seventies world to go back
Joe: right. Yeah. So you go in the future to go back to the an
geo: I think that you guys
Lee: their version of the seventies, be a skewed version. It would be, real, but not fully real.
geo: I
dunno. I think I’d have fun. And it’d be more like if you could just go to different times. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Not,
and just
hang out a little
Lee: you don’t have to
pick
geo: what I’m saying,
like I, I think there’s some moments in history I would love to go to and just hang out, it’d be really cool.
But if it’s only one thing, one way I don’t know. Because you’re really like putting up so much to chance about going,
Forward. I don’t know.
Joe: Yeah,
geo: I don’t know if I can decide.
Joe: You don’t Dunno if you Boo.
that’s a lot of hand waving on there. I don’t know.
nick: Joe, what about you? Where are you going?
Joe: I’m [00:47:00] with Nick. I don’t really, I a
A person of color going back into the past, there’s not a lot of super great stops. So I, some it might be interesting for a little bit, but then you gotta deal with everything else. So yeah, probably I would punch my ticket to the future and I don’t know, I dunno if I would go super far. Like I see the point let’s just go hundreds and
nick: Like I want the future with flying cars. Like
Lee: Yeah.
nick: just we were promised this future and we do not
Joe: We have, there’s, there’s cars that can get you up in the air. That, that exists now.
nick: we’re,
geo: but it’s not like the Jetsons.
Joe: I don’t know if I want
Lee: Element. Yeah,
Joe: yeah. The fifth element I, and we drive with people with four wheels on the ground and they have trouble. So do you really wanna be in the air with people like zipping around like that? So if AI is controlling the flying cars and we just sit back and chill, then I’m for that.
But if people being, people are flying around in , 1500 pounds of metal[00:48:00]
and jet fuel, I’m gonna pass on that.
Lee: Disaster. More like minority report.
nick: I’m okay with that. Like that cyberpunk
Joe: Yeah. Thought police. I don’t know. I feel this going 10 years. 10 years up. 10
years.
’cause what can happen then? See, I’m still 10 years younger, but I’ll meet my 10 year older and then we can do stuff. We can like,
nick: wait, what kind of stuff are you trying to do with
Joe: into it? I
nick: get into it.
Joe: Why? Take over the world
nick: Oh. Oh, okay.
Lee: Oh
Joe: Not what are you guys talking about?
Stop it.
nick: drama. The way you were talking about it, I’m like,
Joe: No, we were talking about earlier about having your, yourself as your partner in crime or in Ah,
nick: Ah, trying to y you Yeah. Time looped it back around.
geo: wants to ti he wants to team up with
Joe: that’s
right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I can go back 10 years. I go plus and minus 10. Just [00:49:00] this wheel of that the spinny and go the price is right.
I
geo: exactly when I would go back to,
Joe: yeah.
See now I’ve opened up a whole nother thing.
You get to go back and actually team up with yourself, like maybe your 25-year-old self, just go back and be like let’s get this done.
Let’s
do,
geo: are you, your, you 50-year-old
self?
Joe: The only reason I don’t wanna go back was because I was like, either I’m stopping at poor postdoc, poor grad student, poor undergrad, and none of that is there’s no capital to do anything.
So I figured if I go 10 years forward, hopefully I’ve, I have some capital. I’m not paying tuition anymore for kids or anything like that, and I’ve stockpiled some money and then now I come with my still youthful. Excitement about the future. I show up and we make it happen. I guess I could be a poor older also
nick: because
then you’re just changing the whole future for yourself.
Yeah. So then the you that exist now
Joe: I would, I, if we have time to prepare, if we have time to [00:50:00] prepare, I’m gonna get my country wisdom. And
nick: you’re gonna go live in the woods
Joe: no,
I would do things like if I, if you go you gotta go live and you can’t come back, then I would take things of value, so I would probably go get gold wire and things like that.
That would be a commodity to trade and sell. Very fixed things, but still light. So thin it up and then go, and then you have,
geo: Or would you get all the sports stats and then,
Joe: Oh, okay. Back to the future.
Lee: Sure. Yeah.
Joe: I don’t think, you’re going into the future. You’re, if you’re going in
geo: I’m saying if you’re going
Joe: are you getting?
geo: No, I’m saying you, I’ll never
nick: for you, you would end up going with sports stats, so you can
Joe: Yeah, but I’m going into the future. They’re no good. I got
nothing. One, I’m
like past too.
I said if I, if you go in the past, maybe, but you,
geo: yeah.
Obviously in the future people would be like, who cares? Who won the World
Joe: right. 30 years ago?
In 2025, the winner’s gonna be what? What do you mean it happened already? Oh
nick: wait. When am I
geo: like [00:51:00] this. I like this. A story of the time travel going wrong. Kinda.
Joe: You go, you show up, you’re like, oh, I’m going, I’m gonna go 10 years in the past with all these facts and figures you spent years memorizing and then you get in and you show up and you’re 10 years.
Plus just like
nick: who am I? What am I? Where am I?
Joe: Yeah, that would be
nick: I That would be the luck too. I’m going to the past. When am I the future?
Joe: you just spent all this time memorizing. Yeah, that would really suck. I’d feel bad for this person.
nick: I think it’d be really funny. Like I can’t wait to see that movie.
Joe: There it is, Lee, do you have any events or anything you wanna plug? You got your book, the two books you
Lee: yeah, I’ll be at Voucher Con, which is like the mystery thriller writer convention. The first week of September in New Orleans. Yeah.
Joe: cool.
geo: Very cool.
nick: What
Lee: I’m coming off like the second book?
is called Time Fixtures.
’cause they go back in [00:52:00] Time to Fix Time.
nick: Sorry. I, it’s been bugging me. I’m like, I don’t think you’ve said it. And I don’t know the name of it. Two points.
geo: Let’s fix that
Joe: miles
Lee: Oh, there you
nick: We’ll go back. Don’t worry.
Joe: Yes. Post edit.
It’s like
Lee: And yeah, it takes place in, in 1999. Like I said.
Joe: Nice.
geo: That’s awesome. ’cause then everyone’s worried about Y
Lee: Yeah, there’s a little bit of kind of Y2K paranoia and disc man, there’s a lot of kind of the music from that era.
geo: That’s really cool.
Joe: Yeah. But VH one is still, they had the, remember they showed they played party like 1999 by Prince On Loop
geo: for 24 hours.
24
Joe: hours. Yeah. It was like that. They still showed music videos, but they just had it on a loop. And
so,
nick: Wait. Hold on. What. VH one shows music videos.
Joe: They did? Yes.
geo: Can you
believe
Lee: that way.
Same tv.
Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. No,
Lee: One, it was [00:53:00] It was not just for teen
moms. I feel like they should bring it back music videos
Joe: you do.
like on, on Apple Music, music videos For songs like that, people still make
music videos. Yeah, but they’re not, yeah, they’re not as, there’s not TV for it, but They do it.
Yeah. They still make, but you’re right. Yeah. That was a heyday because people, they would try to outdo each other with their music videos and
Lee: I, yeah, I definitely grew up where I would watch MTV
Joe: Yep.
Lee: I forget the name of the show. It was the Request Quest. Yeah.
Joe: No, yeah. That was the life I was in.
geo: See, you can go back.
Joe: you can go, I
geo: You can go back,
Joe: be
creeping on
Lee: to,
Joe: creeping at college. Some the who’s this strange old man in the lobby watching
geo: TVI
nick: remember,
these days this song’s gonna be a hit in 15 years. I
Joe: I bet you this one’s gonna hit the top billboard. Come on, let’s get those bets.
I
geo: feel like something really bad’s [00:54:00] gonna happen if you’re older. Self goes, visits your young self. Actually, there was that movie that was really good. My old butt or
Joe: Oh, my, yeah.
The
Lee: my old
ass.
Joe: old
geo: my old ass.
My old
Lee: Yeah,
geo: I dunno.
Joe: The young adult version.
geo: But
That was really good.
I really liked
Lee: right where she’s on mushrooms
and yeah,
Joe: it was like mental
Lee: No, another Aubrey Plaza movie. Yeah
nick: Aubrey Plaza for the Win. she gonna be our time travel queen?
Joe: There we go.
Maybe.
Lee: But it’s,
geo: we’ll give award.
Lee: movies. There might be another one.
Joe: Yeah.
geo: But there was like, obviously Demi Moore being with her, like there could be some really bad consequences.
You’re like the nevermind.
Joe: Oh, you mean like substance? Yeah.
Lee: Wow.
Joe: But I think in that one it was more mental time travel, and I got back to that.
That’s another one
probably I would throw in, because you’re right, she was tripping on the shrooms and then she would have, she would see her older self.
nick: Is this the second episode this year? [00:55:00] We’ve talked about drugs and doing things with science.
Joe: I don’t know.
geo: Oh, I think there’s a lot more we could talk about.
Joe: There’s a lot
more we can
talk about.
nick: We’re gonna have It’s a lot that go hand in.
drugs, could do a whole
Joe: A whole
geo: episode
Joe: there. You heard in Air Force
nick: prepare for season three of the drug episode.
geo: Oh, what was the other show we watched? That was a series. Oh shoot. The, and they’re newspaper delivery and it’s based on the graphic novels
Joe: Paper Girl,
geo: Is that what it’s called? Paper?
Joe: Girl.
Yeah.
nick: What
Joe: it was four Girls
on Bicycles
geo: oh, and then that was a really good
Joe: Yeah, that was had some time travel. I was gonna say, for all of mankind, the Apple plus one, did they
geo: Did they time travel?
Joe: It’s an alternate. Reality.
geo: It’s an alternate reality. But nobody time travel.
Joe: mean it is time travel.
Okay, nevermind. That’s a whole different but I But it is ’cause there’s an alternate reality. But you’re right, it’s not time travel. Nevermind. I’ll scratch that. I’ll edit it [00:56:00] out
nick: No, leave it in.
Joe: I’m taking it out.
it’s Like
the Brussels sprouts. It’s gone. Yeah. Cool. I think that’s we’ve gone in and out around a lot of different
nick: We loop de looped it,
Joe: looped, de looped it, we wormhole it.
nick: Thank you so much, Lee, for coming on the show today.
Lee: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, no, it’s a pleasure.
Joe: definitely. So
geo: and I’m looking forward to reading the second one. Yeah. Yeah. Let me know what, you, let me know what you think and yes, let me know what you think about the first one
Joe: Yeah, will do.
nick: I
actually didn’t realize that it was a young adult’s book until you said it.
I’m like, oh man. This is just an easy read. I like it.
Lee: I’ll take
it. a easy read.
nick: I just oh,
geo: my favorite books are young adult
nick: They’re just a nice breeze to oh, it’s an enjoyable read and.
Lee: Yeah, that was why I wanted to write them. I, like I said, I write more disturbing thrillers and I wanted a break from that. Yeah. The second one I think I wrote in like a [00:57:00] couple weeks. Like it
bad. Yeah. Yeah.
geo: Yeah, no, I, and I think that the character really for being that short time period, I think that character really matured and there was some more heavy things that came out later in the book. You know what I mean?
Lee: You’re dealing with the mom’s mental health, which becomes a big part of the second book and why they go back in time to fix her. Yeah the, with all young adult books, you need like issues to
geo: right. Definitely.
nick: Hell yeah. All right.
Joe: Yeah, you have me, Joe,
nick: You got Nick.
Joe: We’ve got Nick
Lee: Ali. And thank you again, Lee, and
Joe: and
nick: we went down some timey time
Joe: again and
again and
again.
nick: we went down some ttimeyhole
Joe: And again.
Stay safe out there when you time travel.
Love y’all.