Transcript EP 51: Season 2 Recap: What Makes A Christmas Movie (And Is Die Hard one?)

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[00:00:00]

joe: Hey, welcome back to the Rabbit Hole of Research. Down here in the base-

ment studio in the throes of winter here in Chicagoland. It’s

NIck: the cold.

Mary: first day of winter.

joe: Is it the first day of winter?

7How are we there? It’s the first

Mary: day of winter

joe: or recording day’s. The first day. Not to release

Mary: Oh, That’s true. That’s true.

joe: Yeah.

NIck: Oh, Mary. Straight

up lying to the audience immediately.

joe: Alright, well now we,

well I mean

Mary: isn’t going

out live.

joe: Not live. No not yet. Yeah. Maybe in, in the future we’ll do a live

Geo: that, oh boy.

joe: With that we are already hearing some different voices. But you got me, Joe,

NIck: you got Nick. You

joe: Nick Georgia, we’ve got Georgia and a familiar voice.

Yes.

Mary: My name is Mary Schoons And I’m lucky enough to get to come back

joe: back you

NIck: Thank you for coming the multiverse I’m coming Season one Multiverse

episode. Yeah. And we have another

joe: too. And we do have another guest. Now our guests are introducing other

guests.

Mary: Yes.

joe: This is, to feel very comfortable.

[00:01:00] It’s like, let’s get whatever you want out the fridge here.

8Mary: Woohoo.

Kat: We got this

you guys can all kick back.

So,

My name is

Catherine.

Disturbance. You can Call

me Kat. And

My relevance for this topic tonight is that

I am the Chief Comfort and joy officer of the Virtual Nation

of Snow Globia, which

is a, virtual nation that currently is housed on Facebook and

joe: and

Kat: dedicated to

living

in the spirit of Christmas.

You have a sense of humor,

but we’re also very strict and there is no

joe: okay.

Mary: Alright,

Well

Nick, you’re on

NIck: cotton headed ni nuggets on there,

Mary: So yeah.

Thanks.

NIck: will get booted. Got it.

9Mary: Well

remember Santa’s watching.

Yeah.

joe: Oh. Or

Geo: listening.

joe: Listening.

or

Mary: Santa is

listening.

joe: listening. I mean, it could be

Mary: the podcast. That’s

audio Only Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

joe: Yeah.

A little strange that he is

watching all

NIck: Considered a Demigod?

joe: Yeah. Well, we’ll get to that. Let’s not jump the gun here.

NIck: I,

joe: I [00:02:00] yeah.

NIck: was a segue.

I

had to

Geo: question.

joe: was,

But

10what yeah, so if you haven’t guessed we’re gonna be touching on holiday movies

in particular Christmas movies. I think we got little Jingle Jangles. And it’s also our re-

cap.

So we’ll do a little recap of our season, ’cause this is the last full episode of the

season. And then , as we do, we have a mini that will come out New Year’s Eve and

we’ll just really wrap up the season.

NIck: Dang. We’re on New Year’s

Eve for that one.

joe: It is New Year’s Eve. That’s right. You gotta come in with

NIck: Are we gonna do a countdown

Geo: party

joe: hats and we’re not li I guess we could we have time the episode, like you start

this episode?

No. Okay. Exactly.

NIck: That’s exactly.

what we should do.

joe: so I, I do have a little, intro at that this season. I started that , my little mono-

logue at the beginning seems like people like it, Soma.

Got one here.

NIck: you really want to go for that late night talk show host, don’t you?

joe: That’d be nice.

I’m listening. Now I’m talking over the course of season two. We explored a lot of

science through the lens of [00:03:00] fiction. We asked How fast is too fast, what hap-

pens when time is misbehaves, when ecosystem, societies and technology buckle un-

der pressure from noir to kaiju, from superheroes to slashers, from hearts to stretched

and juiced organs.

11Every episode, we separated the science from the hand waving. And as we close

this season, we wanna unwrap a little of that Christmas magic.

Christmas is opposed to be comforting, silver and gold decoration, blinking lights,

hot chocolate, familiar stories, the same songs, same movies every year on a loop.

But if you actually look at Christmas movies, they’re not about comfort. They’re

about pressure. People force together deadlines. You can’t move systems push to the

edge when you expect everything to feel magical. That’s why Christmas is the perfect

setting for movies, action, horror, comedy, sci-fi, and even monsters because it’s uni-

versally understood to be a stressful time.

But a [00:04:00] movie set during a snowy December day isn’t an automatic in to

the Christmas movie club. So in this final episode of season two, we’re pulling the

wrapping paper off to see what stories were built to go on a loop and which ones

were only held together

by Christmas. Handwaving him.

So, alright.

Mary: Very

nice. Very nice.

Kat: nice.

Mary: So,

I’ve been really looking forward

to this

For Kat to

lay out

her arguments about,

I guess it’s

Now an age old question. Is Diehard a Christmas movie or not?

12And I really

am looking forward to Kat

talking

about

why you have now you have a, you have criteria why the why does die Hard is a

joe: movie. Mary’s the

host now. Yeah. She’s taking over.

Mary: I am. I’ve totally, that’s what I do. You

give me a, you give me a mic

and I’m like, whoop.

joe: There you go.

I, there you go.

Okay.

Geo: She

does programming. I

joe: I know. Yeah. I see that. You

Mary: can tell.

Sorry.

joe: No, you’re fine.

Kat: I very much have criteria.

Should I delve [00:05:00] into my criteria? Well, there’s a little business. All right. I

think we should take care of.

Okay. Do it.

joe: Do it. Folks who have listened. We may remember from season one recap, we

sampled the world’s strongest beer.

NIck: And then we did that again, pre-recording this.

13joe: the

Geo: Some of us

joe: which was 75%. It was a Scottish strong,

a blended with spirits.

So for this episode, I start to follow up in our

second season that we’ve completed or completing,

maybe after

this we got the world’s second strongest beer at 67.5%. It’s a fortified scotch beer.

And the fortification is, they concentrate it through freeze distillation. So you freeze it

and you separate the alcohol from the beer during the freezing ’cause the water will

freeze

before the alcohol.

Geo: That was a way to get science.

into the

joe: Indeed

it is. There

Mary: There you

go.

joe: And

then they blended it with some Scottish spirits also. So

that’s

what we have. It’s called a [00:06:00] snake venom.

NIck: By blending it, they just kind of. Threw a few. drops in and they’re just

joe: a few drops. That’s right. They did. And a little taste like, you know,

Geo: and cats Like, thank, goodness I’m not

joe: not,

14here.

Geo: in the studio.

Mary: lucky. You’re so lucky.

No, first

of all, I wanna say as somebody who has stamped the world’s strongest beer,

it’s

absolutely disgusting.

joe: And

Mary: I

knew it was gonna be, as I,

yeah, I was warned about it. And

listen

joe: to the, that episode.

Mary: What was it Nick?

You said it was like nail polish remover.

it’s,

it is.

it, I think

it,

joe: I

NIck: my inside’s so clean

Mary: Yeah.

joe: the tone

NIck: episode though.

joe: episode, though.

Mary: That was amazing episode.

15joe: So,

Mary: yeah. I love

that episode.

joe: Kinda want to some cheers and, we’re gonna get into the holiday movie Kat is

like just champing at the bit right now,

Mary: Oh, we are

so ready. We’re

joe: going. So I’m

Kat: your business. Do your business.

joe: but

just quickly

before we, we do our toast. Yes, please. , I just wanted some stats really fast and

like I said on the mini episode we’ll touch upon us again. But season one we had eight

guests.

Geo: Season

joe: season one, we had eight [00:07:00] guests.

Season two we had 25. Mm-hmm.

So almost

every episode,

At the end of season one, we had 3,823 downloads. But at the time of this record-

ing, we’re at 12,672 total downloads.

So we have listeners, someone has listened to this podcast on six outta the seven

continents. So Antarctica is the only one that’s because it’s

Probably, you know, that’s all right. Yeah, no yeah. There’s still,

NIck: why there are

scientists that live there.

16it.

Why? aren’t they listening?

Geo: Come on. We even

joe: We gotta get it

Geo: a shout out.

joe: Yeah. We’ll make it, that’ll be our season three goal. They

get,

Mary: they seen, have they uncovered the thing?

Are they things,

joe: or might, you know, the problem was to the map they gave with the stats on

Yeah. Didn’t actually have Antarctica in it, so maybe

that could,

Geo: could be, the reason

joe: there wasn’t, a spot for Antarctica, so maybe I’ll have to push

Geo: we need to, they need to have

joe: some better stats

Geo: Yeah. They need to be on the map.

Yeah. So

the,

podcasting,

met I think so.

There,

joe: There’s, they’re

folks

Mary: in that Antarctica.

Geo: Yeah.[00:08:00]

17So I,

joe: I just wanna thank.

Like I said, we’ll do this probably again, but all the guests that came on with us

made it a great show. We’ll probably dig into names and name drop on a mini one,

but, and thank the co-hosts. I mean, it’s this

show wouldn’t

NIck: we have to thank you for doing all the

joe: kind of a,

NIck: and So

Georgia and I

Geo: All

the

work

NIck: bullshit our way through.

Mary: And

joe: so yeah, with that, thanks. I also as I did last year, I like to give out the Rabbit

Hole of Research Award without

Geo: Oh, I didn’t even know.

NIck: Oh. Without consulting

anyone with anything.

Geo: So

joe: last year, Jeff, go, bloom won.

NIck: We’re gonna argue so hard right now. Actually,

joe: this one I think we’ll get consensus.

I think I’m gonna give the Rabbit Hole of Research word of the season. Extremo-

phile.

18Geo: Ooh. okay.

Well, I,

NIck: Georgia shoved that

in

so

many holes

Geo: we,

joe: that’s what

Geo: time

joe: out. Okay.

Geo: I

Mary: thinking,

you

know what, when you said the secret, when you said the word, I was

thinking [00:09:00] that because I’ve been watching the Peewee Herman’s Christ-

mas special a

joe: lot.

Right.

Mary: Which is awesome. It’s free on YouTube,

the secret word.

So if I hear Extre Aile

anytime in

2026, I’m

gonna

scream real

loud.

19joe: should,

yes. That’s what I want.

Mary: Remember,

Geo: always hear

joe: Rabbit hole hear secret

Mary: word,

Geo: and it really deserves a lot.

joe: Yes,

we might. a, It’s such a great, we might talk

about Extre Aile in this episode, but

that’s a little tip.

But yeah.

26 cheers. With the world’s strongest. Do

we

Mary: a beverage for cad? Are you ready? All

joe: Have a beverage. Here we go.

All

right. Cheers. Let’s do it.

Cheers.

We got some little clinking, Holly. We. Nice. Clean

Geo: last

NIck: Oh. One more joke.

Geo: All All right.

joe: Down to hatch people.

Mary: glug Goodbye.

NIck: Bottoms up.

20Not as bad.

joe: That’s actually

NIck: as bad.

joe: That’s a good, That’s a good, sipping.

Mary: You know what it, this is, some, yeah.

This is

not a beer.

I mean,

it

joe: no.

Mary: it’s like,

it’s

joe: a little heat behind it.

NIck: Oh, you guys didn’t shoot it? like A shot?

joe: No. It was a sipper.

NIck: Oh.

joe: What are you doing over there?

Mary: Uhoh.

joe: Uhoh. He’s gonna fall out. He’s got [00:10:00] this tall seat now, like he’s the

king of the studio.

Mary: paralytic in the corner. over There,

joe: But at least listening

Mary: one doesn’t

have a bad aftertaste. It’s slightly.

joe: No, it

doesn’t

21Mary: almost at the end.

Geo: right here. though.

joe: warms your

chest. Like, like if you were

Sitting

out by a fire trying to decide who was The Thing.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

joe: is the drink you want. Yeah.

This is what you want.

NIck: the drink you’d give it everyone.

Absolutely. And the one that isn’t human it’s gonna just freak out.

joe: There’ll be

Mary: the world’s

Geo: I have a,

NIck: I have

joe: people. Now I, now that’s my segue and we’ll get back to you, the others. But

it, there’s a petition going around and this might, this will lead to for you Ka while we

oh,

Geo: now, how the hiccups Is that

gonna be a problem?

Kat: I heard

Mary: A few more.

a few warming

drinks will turn us stiff as a board over here.

22joe: So there’s a petition online, and I don’t know if you’re familiar with the movie

The Thing, but there’s a petition to have it class reclassified as a Christmas movie. And

no.

Yeah. Yeah. The Thing, yeah. So really and there’s some fundamental [00:11:00] I

think there’s some fundamental problems with it that I have.

But,

NIck: what the movie? The Thing.

Geo: like

joe: the thing Yeah,

the movie

NIck: a, you have problems with that movie

Geo: being class. No,

joe: as a Christmas movie.

Yes.

NIck: movie. Oh, I was like, Joe, well, this is Oh, has

no

Geo: with the

movie. No,

joe: I actually, I was like, yeah, let’s do it. Let’s make it a Christmas movie. That’s so,

I could give Christmas movie lovers a hard time, but but yeah,

NIck: it,

Mary: And who

Geo: who’s

joe: you were

Geo: the, who do you petition to like, who’s the ultimate,

Christmas

23joe: It was authority. Was it Internet? Internet movie database? I think it was I don’t

know. The inter internet movie database. Whoever does the previews,

Mary: it was in the snow.

joe: Yeah, so Right. That’s when the cold

Geo: but it’s always snowy and

cold there.

joe: The thing that, that they said, , in the movie is, the first damn and week of win-

ter.

And so I think a lot of people, as you said that today’s the first day of winter, which

is a week away, so that would make it a Christmas movie. But you gotta remember

they were in Antarctica, which is in the

Southern Hemisphere. So actually that wouldn’t be December. You would be

more like. Is that March?

So it’s actually not [00:12:00] Christmas time. It’s more a an Easter movie maybe.

Geo: Okay. you have to tell us where to write in.

Where do you write in?

joe: Where do I write in?

Geo: Yeah.

To say that you think you are asking people to do this

petition

and you don’t even, I’m not,

joe: people to do the

petition. I said the petition?

is out there that you can do.

Geo: Well That should be in the show notes,

24joe: that in the show notes. But what I want to get to you is to hear Cats’ Rules of a

Christmas movie, please.

And we could see, not die hard, but let’s start with the thing like a easy one.

Maybe because I already kicked a leg outta that table, but may maybe, let’s see what

the rules of the road are. Yeah. Yeah,

Mary: let’s

do it.

NIck: Well,

Kat: Well, yeah. So I

I’m only, I just barely

remember

the thing,

but

I’m just

looking at

like people’s

arguments for

the thing. It’s like takes

place in wintery weather and

Kurt Russell has a Santa like beard.

I mean that is the

Geo: Yes,

NIck: well.

Mary: Oh, you know, that beard is hot,

joe: there is a, okay,

Mary: Let’s,

25joe: so you, you brought that up. But [00:13:00] there is a an alternative theory, so

go ahead and then I will

I’ll swing back on that,

Mary: but yeah, go over the criteria, right? Yep.

joe: Yep.

Kat: see how

it fits with

that. Okay. So

criteria on

judging

whether something is a Christmas movie,

it’s number one

does the movie

prominently feature

joe: Mm-hmm.

Kat: That is one of the criteria it’s not like, doesn’t

require all three of the criteria,

but it should have at least one of the criteria. And that is a large one. Number two,

does it feature Christmas and also have

a redemption and forgiveness theme,

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kat: like you

were hearkening to that

you know, with like everybody’s under

pressure,

There’s like these

26ridiculous, illogical Christmas, Eve deadlines for things

that really, have nothing,

to

do Eve

and

yet. that’s when they’re happening. Number three for me, number three came up

because people sometimes refer to things that really have nothing to do with Christ-

mas, but traditionally occur

in

December.

Geo: Mm-hmm.

Kat: Now, for me, this doesn’t make it a Christmas movie, but [00:14:00] the clas-

sic example is the Sound Of Music, because whoever owned the rights to that for

decades always aired it in.

December. and that always made it

like

it was on

the TV when we decorated the tree and stuff like that. So

for some people, that’s why

the Sound of Music is a

Christmas.

movie.

that’s why my favorite things is a

Christmas song, even, though it’s

really not.

And

27you know,

thematically.

so.

those

are the general

joe: Mm-hmm.

Kat: I

have more specific Diehard rules, but those are the,

those

are my general rules.

So,

let, yeah.

let’s see

how that applies.

to The Thing,

joe: Yep. No, I have similar, that was my similar

Geo: Right. Christmas Doesn’t come up at all.

joe: Christmas doesn’t come up,

NIck: I’m pretty sure Joe’s right.

Geo: Yeah

joe: it’s not set in Christmas.

Geo: Yeah. You don’t even say the word, Christmas. once. Right.

NIck: There’s not even a tree.

joe: Yeah. I mean, am I my cri I mean that, that whole thing about the plot collaps-

es have moved to another season. That’s a strong point. Like you mm-hmm. You need

28the Christmas there, so, but yeah. No, I, the [00:15:00] thing doesn’t fit. I looked it up.

It is internet movie database and letter boxed. That’s

where you petition until December 24th. you can, okay.

If you choose to petition

and

NIck: do have a problem, Joe. You keep saying the whole name. Instead of just IM

db.

joe: Well, ’cause people might know what IMBD is.

That

Geo: is a good point. Come on, we’re old.

joe: Yeah. You

can find, but you know, I, speaking of season

two

Mary: information super highway,

joe: we are, we, I

Geo: and I was just talking about Jill and

joe: I

was looking if

NIck: movie

joe: I was looking this up a few more

Geo: The Royal the podcast.

joe: We,

are now listed in the I am db. I am

Mary: db. ‘

joe: cause I had, I’ve had the snake. Ve but yeah, we’re the

Mary: world’s second strongest

29beer is pretty

joe: can go on in there and write plot points and stuff.

Geo: Getss us back on point.

We never even discussed this or Yeah, we

did.

NIck: Yeah, we did

joe: What?

NIck: Georgia’s drunk

joe: guy. I know. She’s done, she’s had

Geo: wondering.

joe: Yeah.

NIck: she has shitfaced

joe: [00:16:00] think the

thing fails on a

number

Geo: hiccups,

NIck: boy,

joe: A number of points there, but Die Hard. Let’s assume that’s always a favorite

one.

NIck: I got one, that I don’t

think is gonna be brought up, but I’ll wait till the Diehard conversation.

joe: Right,

So Diehards a Christmas movie. It

Mary: It’s not a Christmas movie. It is

joe: It’s solidly

Geo: Oh my

30NIck: A hundred percent

Mary: but

would you

like to hear the rebuttal?

joe: Well, I guess, yeah.

NIck: I mean.

Kat: another

criteria though is does it

have like

The Christmas

bling is

what I like to

call it, and I do look the lousiest,

Most

terrible anemic

plots on Hallmark and a lot

and

fantastic.

Wonderful.

Interior

and

Exterior bling, which Diehard

does have

but I am curious to hear. I’m Curious to hear, the no thing

Mary: Okay. This, is, I do not

think that

31Die Hard is a Christmas movie.

Die Hard is an action movie set at

Christmas time.

joe: That’s

so,

NIck: I mean that, sounds like

joe: Yeah. I mean, yeah,

it sounds like Christmas.

NIck: Yeah,

Geo: Eh,

joe: if you,

Mary: okay, hang on.

Geo: Alright, [00:17:00] so,

NIck: so,

joe: so,

Mary: so

Die

hard’s original release date is July 22nd. 1988.

NIck: Christmas in July. Yeah,

joe: if

you’re in Antarctica.

NIck: Okay.

Mary: Alright.

Now

Kat: now.

32Mary: Now take a look at the, okay. So take a look at this movie poster. So, folks I

know, right?

It is very riveting to be told about a visual

thing

on a podcast,

but

you can look this up on yourself. Google image, the diehard movie

poster. If you saw this poster,

Geo: it

NIck: should be on every tree.

Mary: Where

Kat: I wanna

Mary: If you saw this movie

poster, where

would

you put that movie

Without

knowing anything about

it,

W would you put this in the

Christmas section?

or

would you put this in the action or action movie section?

joe: I mean, you could

Mary: if

joe: you wanted to.

33Kat: mean, as a criteria though. As a, as.

NIck: going on.

joe: Yeah. We

Weird area

Kat: though. I think that would take out a lot.

of movies that are considered generally Christmas

movies. It’s a Wonderful.

Life.

Arguably that could have [00:18:00] happened.

I,

could have

happened on the 4th of July.

that that is not That’s not a Christmas

dependent

plot.

It’s got a great redemption theme. But the poster is probably what all those guys

standing around a big table of money at the end.

Mary: it’s, yeah.

Well, anyway, it doesn’t feature anything in Christmas,

however, so I wanna talk about this because

I

watched, I rewatched Diehard for this.

And I came away, well, first of all, I almost just didn’t even finish it because it’s very

eighties, very machismo, you know,

blah,

blah.

34joe: blah.

I love it. Hold on.

Geo: getting,

joe: I know? geez, you just don’t like, I mean,

NIck: do you have your email so we can have all the hate mail go there.

joe: If you don’t like the movie, that’s one thing,

but now

Mary: hang on for I,

I’m

not finished yet.

All right. So I started this and then I almost didn’t finish it.

And then I get to that amazing scene where he’s talking about,

he’s talking about his wife and

you, he’s

talking to Al.

On

the ground, his other love

interest in the movie. [00:19:00]

And

He’s just saying, you know, I,

she’s heard me say it a million times, I love you. But yeah, she’s never heard me

say I’m

sorry.

And it’s. The movie itself plays with different

themes. It’s

kind of easy to miss with all of the bullets and, blood flying everywhere.

35But the reason he’s on such

a tear

in this movie is because he’s

scared about losing his

wife.

NIck: This sounds like a Hallmark Mart movie.

joe: It does, yeah.

Mary: But,

can we also talk about the insanity

of having a giant

Christmas party, a work Christmas party on Christmas Eve? Can we talk about how

crazy that

is?

joe: Man, it happens. They just closed a big deal. So they were working at that, in

that culture. Yeah, they were working through Christmas.

They just had, that was a whole thing in a party. It wasn’t just Christmas, it was also

Christmas. And they closed a deal before everybody went on holiday. So it was kind of

pressure there that they weren’t still in the office. They still were super excited

and instead of us leaving,

Mary: how do you get a live [00:20:00] band to play a work party on Christmas?

Eve?

joe: I mean, yeah. And it’s not

Kat: Oh, hey.

NIck: I mean, if someone pays me enough money.

I will leave my family.

to go play.

36Mary: and they,

If

they’re cha,

joe: me up. We’re good. Yeah.

Mary: a lot of cash back

joe: in catering, but

Mary: but

can you imagine? I

joe: they had

NIck: and the amount of cocaine.

joe: I think they had, I think they were planning this party, but I think it just also it

because they had more people stayed.

They were there because of that event. And they all kind of congregated there be-

cause they were working hard to finish close the deal. Mm-hmm. And then they were

there on that floor.

Mm-hmm. And Then

they kinda locked the building. Right. So it was a very private thing if you did that

other times of the year.

Other offices in that building could have been occupied. It wouldn’t have been as

clear. So setting it at that time, you actually cleared a building. And then these people

who are business people closing a deal in a different country, like in Japan and other

countries with different work cultures, they were, that was part of that whole thing.

And so they were there working hard,

and then it was oh your family’s here. Yeah. Let’s give him a place. And so when

John was coming, John McLean was coming. It was this whole idea that family might

37be there or show up [00:21:00] because you’re missing that time. Mm-hmm. And this

was, and she was the right hand woman there.

So,

Mary: and that

explains his fear of losing his wife because the head of the company, he saw that

what ha happened to the head of the company. He knows his wife is

second in command

And is very noble. She’s, you know, he

knows that. I think he’s

just trying to, I realize after that scene, like that’s

hi. why he’s on such a frantic tear.

I would argue that diehards more of a slasher than a Christmas movie, actually.

’cause he’s just boom, W him out.

He’s scared about, it’s a love story. It’s a,

love st

joe: But all that could be a Christmas story. Right. I mean, that’s the thing.

Well,

I, I’ll counter every love okay. Not every, okay.

Mary: Now every Christmas story has a bit of redemption. but Not every redemp-

tion story is

a Christmas movie. Otherwise, the Shawshank Redemption would be a Christmas

joe: movie.

Must not

NIck: does it take

joe: though. Well,

yeah. See, that’s

38Mary: it Has

redemption in

it.

joe: I think it was

said

NIck: That’s just because it’s in the name you can’t get.

Mary: okay.

Yeah.

It’s got,

yeah.

Yeah. So, [00:22:00] but the I

and

oh, so, and then one of the things that and this is, I swear this is relevant because

we’re drinking.

joe: And

Mary: When I

was a

when I was

an undergrad, one of the things I did I worked in restaurants to get through

school.

I.

And at that time I think my, I could probably count on two hands how many times

I’d had alcohol. So I had no experience whatsoever with it. And I was at this restaurant

and I’m

tasked with

making mixed drinks from time to time. , I’m like, okay, shot,

39mixer,

steer, here you go.

And

then people would keep complaining about my drinks

not being strong enough.

joe: Mm-hmm.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

And so one day the bartender says, Hey, look, listen, I’m gonna handle this for

you.

She goes, okay,

put a little bit of alcohol in,

then put your

mixer, then put your alcohol

on top. Because if you finish it with the alcohol,

they’re gonna think there’s more. In fact, you can actually put in less alcohol.

And the,

the bar,

the bargo were, and.

we’ll think there’s more. And sure enough, it worked. I started getting [00:23:00]

compliments, like finally I got my drinks right. I was actually giving

them less alcohol, but because I finished it strong. And that’s kind of how Diehard

finishes. The

diehard, diehard, it’s an action movie.

There’s a couple of mentions, , there’s

some pivotal moments where they have the Christmas tape where he is able to

hide the gun.

40joe: Mm-hmm. You know,

Mary: but it ends super

Christmas-y.

joe: Super Christmasy. I like it.

Mm-hmm.

Mary: it does, it didn’t, this body,

joe: body where he has ho, ho. I got a gun now

and he’s got the hat on and ferry play, which, you know, he probably shouldn’t

have done that.

I mean, he shouldn’t have tipped off the guys that he was there. So if he didn’t do

that, he could’ve just got the gun, got the walkie talkie, and then Oh yeah. Just went

around. So really he wanted

Geo: but because it was Christmas,

joe: he wanted to show it

then

Geo: and he had Christmas spirit

NIck: I mean

Mary: I mean,

It’s the Spirit movie

set at

Christmas.

joe: I will say He did

have Natalie,

Mary: it

NIck: So it’s a Christmas.

movie, Right. No,

41joe: He had a really strong redemption arc. Yeah. Family stakes. Like everything in

a Christmas movie [00:24:00] that you would cook in there,

NIck: It’s like saying Jingle All the Way is in I mean you would just put

joe: that in so you would have it

Mary: check out the the.

I’m just saying it takes place at Christmas.

I’m not, obviously I’m not gonna change

any minds here. And you’re not, you’re definitely

not gonna

joe: change mind. No, we’re not.

Mary: But I did come

away with

a new

appreciation of Die Hard because I think, oh yeah. It’s actually a

love story.

He’s scared about lo losing

as he’s scared about losing his wife. I

was kind of a bummed though, at the end of the movie, you know, after he has like

the big,

Embrace with his wife, and so

we’re, I think we’re

probably all of age, we probably saw the movie like the first time in the theaters,

right?

No,

not

Okay. some of

42us are young. Okay.

So

I just,

Geo: I

joe: I remember,

Mary: like, I still remember this one.

joe: We’re watching

Mary: it and like, there’s like the huge embrace at the end, and Bruce Willis is just

covered in mud and blood and ugh.

Geo: ugh.

joe: ugh.

Mary: And

this one person

in

the audience, you could just hear going, Ew,

Geo: they’re just

Mary: going.

but

like when he got down

At the end they had the climactic,

meeting [00:25:00] with Al, I was like,

why didn’t he kiss him like that?

joe: Well, that would’ve been a different movie, maybe. I don’t know.

Kat: I’ve heard arguments that it’s like a reverse,

hallmark plot

because in the

43Hallmark Lifetime movie, the woman

Is the workaholic, with the Christmas Eve deadline and winds up getting sent to

the

Podunk Town where she meets the guy, the overalls with no visible means of finan-

cial support. And then she winds up giving up the big city.

But in this case,

she

actually

went

to the

big city. She’s got the really demanding.

career and her sort of

patriarchical,.

toxic husband

follows her to the Big city and supports her career

which is a funny take on it.

Mary: At the end of the movie, he realizes he’s wrong to stick with

he was and be stuck in the old ways. He moves out to

LA to be with his wife

and

his

wife, takes back, their married name.

They have a, like a reconciliation of

joe: sorts. Yeah. Nice. Redemption art.

Mary: Yeah. Yeah. It is a very nice redemption

44joe: So I’m gonna put another movie out there that Mary’s probably not

[00:26:00] gonna think, but Trading Places another one of my

favorite,

Mary: I no

joe: Christmas don’t know that much about Trading

Places.

Yeah. Eddie Murphy.

NIck: that was a good movie. I just re-watched that recently.

Geo: you feel Like

the fact it was set at Christmas, had a big part of it.

Kat: And

the redemption. theme

also

joe: redemption, moral, the moral story in there, like that all cooked in and then

being set at Christmas did add that consumerism, that greed.

I think if you said it at other times, it may not have landed as well, but yeah, that

one I always think put it in

there.

Geo: don’t know. I have to get back to

What

a Wonderful Life.

Mary: Oh, I

love that movie. I

Geo: think that could be said at a different time.

I think it has to

be said

45at

Mary: Mery Christmas. movie house.

joe: I think you could set it at a different time. I think the problem with that, you’re

right.

Geo: I think that one

Kat: I could.

joe: he, He’s

Mary: through the snow

going, Merry Christmas. I’m back. I mean, come

joe: It could just be like, you

know

Geo: that

scene

joe: Happy 4th

of July.

Happy 4th of July. you

can see

Geo: somebody

their wings. I

joe: Yeah, I know. I mean, you, you have a lot of [00:27:00] elements, but that one,

maybe you can,

Mary: a

Christmas movie.

NIck: a quick rewrite to make that not

a Christmas movie

joe: I mean,

46Geo: what’s that

NIck: quick rewrite to make that not a

joe: Christmas

movie? Yeah.

Mary: Okay.

So Die Hard is a Christmas movie, but it’s, a

joe: gonna go Home Alone also. That’s Home Alone.

Kat: not gonna die

on that hill, but I am gonna say, if You’re gonna be a purist

and really A stickler, if It can’t be two kinds of genres at the same time. Or, , if it’s

not feel good. enough or if it’s

too Violent.

which I have never considered

an

acceptable

criteria to rule out a

joe: No, you shouldn’t.

NIck: What about too sexual

Kat: Christianity and the Nativity are so violent that it’s like, well, you can’t use

that as a criteria, but what did you say Two?

I mean, there’s,

joe: Yeah. Go for it.

NIck: Eyes Wide Shut. Christmas movie.

joe: Yep.

NIck: There’s,

Kat: can’t even,

47Mary: bless

Kat: what? what? are the criteria that makes it a

Christmas

Geo: yeah,

I’ve seen

NIck: I it takes place during Christmas and there’s Christmas decor in

Mary: be arguing that [00:28:00] Halloween is a Christmas movie. I

don’t know.

joe: No, Halloween is set in Halloween, so, yeah.

No,

But

I, I,

was gonna say I would say for moving, shifting, maybe I’m popular, you could

move Home Alone. Like, there’s a lot of structural questions in there. Like why? I

Kat: oh my

Mary: I think Home

joe: you didn’t need, obviously

Christmas. No, it could be

Thanksgiving. Very easy. People

Kat: now that I’m so glad you said that.

joe: it’s, you know. Yeah,

Kat: so Glad you said that.

Home Alone is

but Diehard is not,

Mary: right?

NIck: Yeah,

48Kat: I don’t think you can have it

joe: that’s right.

Kat: because

Home Alone,

Mary: have it anyway I want.

Kat: Home Alone is like Die Hard for kids.

Home Alone is so

joe: Super

violent.

Mary: no,

I

Kat: insufferable brat and , he like sticks, nails in their feet and like third degree

burns and a

blown torch on the

head

NIck: could have killed every one of them. I think

joe: they probably

did die.

Geo: Yeah. no, I

joe: they’re like ghosts. They’re

Stalkers, right? They’re like

incompetent

Geo: I

joe: Jason. I think

Myth Buster [00:29:00]

Geo: did a whole thing about what would be the injuries of all those.

49joe: They all

were fatal. 100%.

They all were fatal. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mary: Oh,

did you ever hear the, Or the internet

to rumor

or? No, not rumor, but it’s not a real thing. But people saying that maybe Kevin

McAllister is actually, grew up to be

jigsaw.

from the saw

joe: I did see something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah. The

Mary: ages wouldn’t be right at all,

but,

I thought that was

hilarious.

joe: What I was gonna swing back to the

Mary: Kurt Russell, Okay.

joe: I, we can always, and really we can always swing back to

Kurt, be old

Geo: that dreaming beard.

joe: I mean, I, you had the ending of The Thing. They’re out there in the frigid

cold,

and

50then in, oh, love this movie,

Kurt Russell’s filmography.

He has was in the Santa was it the Christmas Chronicles? So he became Santa

Claus.

What is this? So

can you actually make the line between The Thing and Christmas Chronicles

where he was now abandoned in this cold weather environment, taken in and became

Mary: That’s his origin [00:30:00] story.

NIck: this pre or post Tim Allen

joe: That is Saw that somewhere. And I was like, you know what, that’s, yeah. That’s

Santa Claus’s or Origin

story. he’S not the Thing. He became Santa Claus. The

Kat: Goldie Hawn.

Mary: Mrs.

Kat: Hawn as Mrs. Claus,

You’ve got your redemption theme

joe: there it is.

Mary: I love it. Yeah. Oh, can

joe: we

also where’s Child’s at?

He’s gotta get in there.

Mary: Okay.

So Swing. okay.

I wanna swing back to Die Hard for a second, not to

debate it, whether it’s a Christmas movie, ’cause it’s not. But

we can talk about,

51joe: wow.

It is,

Mary: I

NIck: love this is almost as

joe: I

Mary: Christmas.

I love Diehard. It’s just not a Christmas movie.

Anyway. Oh, yes, please. Thank you. Actually after I finished the world’s second

joe: with this nice Candy Cane ale, if you remember the Gremlin episode.

But,

But

s Hans Groove is, says he’s an exceptional thief. He is a terrible thief. He is proba-

bly the,

Mary: maybe possibly the worst

thief.

joe: He did a good job. I mean, he got in there.

Mary: Got in there, I mean, he got in there. Why did he wait till Christmas day?

Why didn’t he wait till

joe: we needed the building empty.

I mean, there was a whole, that’s why the heist couldn’t happen. You had to have

the building empty.

You [00:31:00] had to have people there.

No, but he needed,

Geo: And they were, he needed and they were like, He He needed the hostages

because that was part of it, that they were gonna blow the roof. Yeah. And they think

he died in that explosion, but then got out through the, you know, drove away.

52joe: And so that was a whole setup that so you had to do it with the people.

I

understand. And not a lot of people, you couldn’t have a whole building full of

people because then they, you would have more than one John McLean hero. You

needed the building pretty much empty. One security guard maybe watching the

door.

Mm-hmm. Because there’s still some people in the building. So that’s where, be-

cause probably that guy would go home. Right. And you would just not have any se-

curity. You’d just lock up the gates and everything. So really that, I mean, you had to

have this whole thing where you had to have a holiday where you could actually, you

would have a party.

Mm-hmm. You would have the celebration to keep everyone there. Right. And

then have the heist happen. So really it was the, and then you also have probably.

We’ve learned from other movies like Gremlins, the security during holidays seems to

be drunk or a little lax, a little bit.

So when it’s, when the cop came, with the suit and tried to do things. He did

[00:32:00] everything that Hans wanted them to do because he probably had a little

at the you know, at

the station and, Showed up. Pretty confident. Yeah.

Mary: I

just feel,

joe: Al, Al was very.

Kat: strongest beer.

Geo: Yeah.

joe: Al was really more on top of it. Al should just been in charge ’cause Hans Gru-

ber

53would’ve got stomp a lot

Geo: would’ve been like 10 minutes long.

Mary: you know, also, Al would,

Al

is so fired after

this movie. He is so 100% fired.

joe: theory about that he went. That’s where his

boss Yeah,

that’s when, that’s where he went to. Was it the whole theory. That’s where family

Matters comes in.

Mary: Oh, I haven’t

heard.

joe: so he goes,

he

loses because he shoots another person. Right.

And then he kind of goes psychotic and then he winds up in a mental institution

Where

he’s haunted.

Yeah, he’s haunted

Geo: horrible.

joe: Urkel Kel is the kid that he killed originally. And so he kind of loses it. And so

he’s being haunted by this figure who always comes out and he goes, did I do that?

You know, it’s kind of this whole thing, his whole life. And so this whole story of how,

and his said,

Kat: Wow.

joe: and

54so they went through you.

Look what?

Look it up. I’ll [00:33:00] put the

Geo: is it like a website for Really? obscure random storing?

joe: YouTube. Awesome.

As you guys noted, I do

research. It’s like

Mary: I love it. I

love it. Okay.

I

love this.

I, I,

Geo: I wanna say, I think the whole debate about whether something is a Christ-

mas movie or not, right? It’s all how you define it, it’s all my definition.

And I think Christmas movies are that way.

joe: I, I think

Geo: If you watch a movie and you feel like it’s Christmas.

It’s very subjective.

And I think it should be subjective.

Mary: No.

I love, it.

Well, Ebenezer Scrooge said, you keep Christmas in your way and I’ll keep it in

mine. Yeah. If someone thinks that Diehards a Christmas movie, absolutely.

NIck: Unless they talk to you.

Unless

they talk

55to

joe: I think

Mary: well, they

won’t be able to convince me, but if they think it’s a Christmas

movie, absolutely. Go

joe: I think that

you actually secretly agree and you want to you’re

arguing about it

because you keep it alive, you keep it fresh, and then you get, then

you go and

then you

go I watched Die Hard just to make sure.

And you know,

so you

NIck: it wasn’t the [00:34:00] Christmas season, so,

joe: yeah.

Mary: I

was watching it in

joe: When do you, when do you watch, when do you watch it? Usually in the win-

ter, probably right.

Mary: when, I actually can’t remember the last time I watched Diehard. Honestly,

it, I don’t really watch a lot of

action movies,

so

Geo: gonna say, it didn’t sound like she was really like, she went out of her way to

watch it for this.

56joe: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mary: I watched

it for this

joe: mm-hmm. Heman.

Kat: Shoot him up things. Well I’m a huge fan of Bruce Willis’ Abs and Die Hard.

joe: really, I didn’t even know he abs. Yeah. I didn’t even know he had abs. sense

of

Kat: humor. He

Mary: did in

this movie.

Kat: have, and he does have

nice abs and They are on they washboard. Oh. And can we talk about to s Gruber

and the sexual chemistry

Mary: between Hein Gruber and

John McLean’s wife?

Holly.

That was there were, there was a couple of times Holly was giving Hans the look,

and I thought, you know, John, if you wait a little if you don’t kill all those guys in

enough time,

you are gonna lose her, man.

I’m telling you Alright.

joe: All right. How

about the, Okay.

Kat: gonna, I

57am gonna say that when the topic of, you know, for this [00:35:00] podcast came

up And I started going down my own. Rabbit hole of what constitutes a Christmas

movie. And I started running

like

lightning rounds in my head and talking about it too much until people got un-

comfortable. looks on their faces.

and, you know, things like that.

But I was like,

Okay,

criteria,

Let’s do this.

And I was like, it’s a Wonderful.

life. No.

it’s

not Christmas dependent. I love it.

even a Christmas Carol. If you take a Christmas out,

of the, that, those ghosts could have visited

anytime any holiday.

They don’t have to be Christmas

ghosts,

joe: you got The

redemption. The redemption arc though holds a

little bit.

Geo: I would,

joe: so that’s what saves

Kat: As for sure. I’m just

58joe: yeah. you can,

Kat: with some rewrites. It does

Geo: I wish you could see Mary’s

joe: face.

Yeah,

Kat: Now

I

have three examples of

NIck: you. That’s the great

Kat: I have, so listen, I have three examples of each. Not Christmas dependent.

I had, It’s a wonder, It’s a Wonderful Life.

Mary: that’s

Kat: Carol White Christmas could totally have happened on Thanksgiving.

They didn’t have to save the generals in on

Christmas. But [00:36:00] the ones that are

Like indisputably Christmas Dependent

Plots Miracle on 34th Street,

all about Christmas

Christmas and Santa and all that Elf, absolutely completely about

Christmas from a start to finish and a

Charlie

Brown Christmas, but

also special.

Completely. A hundred percent. A hundred

percent

joe: Rudolph Reno’s, reindeer.

59NIck: Santa

Slay. Krampus. Krampus. I was

joe: Krampus. I was gonna say. Yep.

Krampus.

Kat: yes. Krampus

joe: Christmas

NIck: movie.

Yeah. The, These movies are

Mary: Silent

Night. Deadly Night

NIck: Oh my God. I love those movies. yeah. Garbage day.

joe: gotta

Geo: go,

I gotta go back though. I really, I can’t let, I It’s A Wonderful, life is a Christmas

movie. It’s

joe: Absolutely.

I’m, it’s in my list, but I can make it, if Mary’s gonna make her argument, I can go

up against it. is not a

Kat: that’s exactly what I’m saying. Yeah, I mean, it’s just like you

said though, Georgia, it’s

completely Subjective.

So

for me, I love,

it. I can’t get, you know, I watch it Actually at all kinds of, ear because I am a prac-

ticing

Christmases, you can [00:37:00] just

60gimme a blue pen. I can make, yeah, I

can make some

joe: is that, Kat? You a Christmases

Kat: a, yeah. So

I realized that I had

accidentally, kind

NIck: over that one so much.

Kat: I am made up,

My, I kind of created my

own spiritual practice

because most religions I can’t really connect

with, but I, As I reflected on Christmas.

spirit And.

The

elements that come up in Christmas,

books

and movies and other content.

You know, it always, it, It like highlights the highest form of human behavior. You

know, it’s generosity, sharing

forgiveness.

kindness. No, not

capitalism.

That’s not a spirit of Christmas.

That’s

kind of the bottom line

of Christmas. But you. know, it, you know,

61So as a matter of fact, oh, as a matter of fact, get this,

so

I wrote this small book,

right?

And

it’s the eight tenets of

Christmas. ’cause I figured, well, if

like Catholics, which raised,

I am a recovering Catholic, and it’s like, well, if

you guys can have commandments, then I need to have,

[00:38:00] something cool. So I

have the eight.

tenets of Christmas

and in this book, okay, the fourth tenet, this is relevant, I’m bringing it back around

The fourth tenet of Christmas is

forgiveness, laying down of arms acceptance and redemption.

And my, one of my examples

in the book is Ebenezer Scrooge, John McLean, another popular fictional symbols

joe: Yes. A

Mary: That was written in a book, so it has to be true.

Kat: it has to be

joe: Yes.

Let’s

Mary: was written down.

Kat: Yes, exactly.

It’s

62Geo: how long have you Been a

Kat: Christmases.

Geo: Yes.

Mary: That’s, a hard one to say.

I’ve

Kat: I have been a practitioner of

Christmas

for almost 11

joe: Yeah. How’s that?

Kat: Yeah. Yeah. That was the year That I decided that since humans really are at

our best

behavior in

the Christmas season, that I don’t know why we think we should stop, celebrating

Christmas ’cause things aren’t Going well. So I think anything that we can do to

[00:39:00] try to clean up our behavior I am all for.

but of course that was before the wheels came off and the dumpster fire.

joe: I was

gonna ask,

does Christmas

Geo: cyst is

joe: overlay with like Festivus,

NIck: for the rest of us?

joe: is it, is there

any overlap? It feels like there’s some overlapping kind of ideals.

Kat: Absolutely. I mean,

Chris Christmas.

63is open

to

anything

that embraces the spirit

of Christmas. and for.

me, that is

Absolutely inclusive

of humor.

joe: Okay. Nice. Not taking yourself too serious.

Kat: Right. So,

you We

celebrate.

any holiday

that has some

overlay

with

Christmas in

snow

Glo, my virtual nation. And so we

do Celebrate

Festivus. I just was

recommending

to someone right

before I came on here that they get their

airing of grievances

in

64order, because That’s coming up on Tuesday, stay after Tomorrow. So, you know, I

Got get your poll.

out

joe: Yeah.

NIck: It’s already ready. [00:40:00] Joe,

Georgia, you guys are ready for this, one?

joe: and diehard, she’s gonna be airing her grievance.

Kat: Ramadan, Hanukkah,

joe: Kwanza.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kat: Have overlapping tenets

for sure.

So, you know, I’m super cool with all of those things.

Geo: So basically you,

that’s

what you do is bring Christmas

to

the,

for

the whole year.

Kat: Yeah. So I try to practice

the spirit of Christmas every day. I have.

jing, I have. jingle bells on my rear view mirror so that when I want to

road Rage on somebody’s ass, I will be like

just like jingling the bells

NIck: you ever

65wrap your finger in like red yarn? and give them

the middle finger so it’s

joe: red,

NIck: cane?

joe: You need red and white. like a candy cane?

Kat: just men. I’ll be like,

I’ll I’ll unleash a three A

stream of

expletives, and then I’ll, and then my jingle bells will ring and remind me, and I’ll

be like, right. Okay.

joe: Christmas in, the glass.

Kat: my brother.

Yeah,

joe: Yeah,

Geo: I do. I really like that. I like that thought

about.

Kat: my book.

joe: Yeah. [00:41:00] Awesome. That’d be

Geo: really like that because

I think it’s so easy. To get to your point, Nick, it’s so easy to fall into

the

expectations and the capitalism

and

Feeling like you’re living up to these expectations, and I think that really comes out

at

Christmas.

66time And do like focusing on those things about Christmas that we should be fo-

cusing on,

NIck: Wasn’t like this whole holiday season started because it was a really de-

pressing time for people where it was cold, people were dying like

Geo: sun.

NIck: And you just had to have a reason to get around together and to,

make yourselves happy by

the

company that you’re with.

Yeah. Like you all here with us.

Absolutely. Man.

Turn that one around.

Mary: I love it. of the tenets. hot damn. tenant, the third

Kat: tenet is gathering with

loved.

ones. you know, To

your point though,

Nick, I mean [00:42:00] the Christmas as it

is today.

is like this ridiculous

mashup of things. It’s like pagan

rituals and

joe: Religious. Yeah.

Kat: agricultural festival of ell and

it’s like whatever Prince Albert brought in to Queen Victoria and all that stuff,

joe: Yep.

67Kat: yeah, Prince

Mary: Albert.

joe: Oh, boy, shees. let out. All right. Yeah.

Kat: Yeah. I’ve also

Mary: the second strongest beer, so

joe: Yeah.

Kat: There you go. Uh, with a non-alcoholic beer, so it’s

joe: like, and a candy cane stout, Oh, and

Mary: candy cane

joe: That’s like Christmas in a can.

Mary: can.

It

is, it’s,

it is absolutely I chased mine with some whiskey and some white claw.

joe: I know

that’s, Oh, mine. Hey, I have a few

Kat: things. I have a few things The

topic of Die Hard. I have a few things

joe: Back to diehard. No, please.

Kat: found when I was, that I, when I was

researching, which I found hilarious. Okay, so the first one is Somebody Posted

Die Hard Isn’t a Christmas movie because

it occurs on Christmas. It’s a Christmas movie because

It’s about a social obligation with a family member that you didn’t [00:43:00] wan-

na participate.

in, but spirals more and more into an unending nightmare.

68joe: Yes. that’s it. You know, That

Mary: might be the most convincing argument that I’ve heard for it.

NIck: There we are.

joe: it is.

NIck: The end of the,

joe: you got Mary. She’s done. a

Mary: Okay.

no, but

I,

I have, a,

NIck: I think we started the season with an argument And

Mary: I have

a rebuttal as well. So, go You have some, What is this? This is like, yeah,

Oh, It’s like a, it’s like a rap battle here on a, you know, a The oddest Yeah, that’s

Okay. So, Kat, what’s the next one?

Kat: Okay.

Uh, well Are you rebooting that one? Is that point for Kat? We give the win

do you wanna,

do

Mary: a Absolutely. It’s Christmas time. It is Christmas. It’s the season of miracles.

That was

joe: Is that your

NIck: Ooh,

joe: point? What

Mary: Oh, my rebuttal.

Okay.

69So,

joe: It’s happening.

Mary: Okay. This

is

another person

who thinks that Die Hard is not a Christmas movie.

Kat: Okay. Bring it

on. Let’s have it do it.

Bruce Willis: careful.

carefully.

Die

Hard is not

Christmas

movie.

NIck: That’s not fair. He has [00:44:00] dementia

Mary: He

didn’t.

NIck: then.

Bruce Willis: It’s a goddamn Bruce

Willis movie.

joe: That’s

because he it be a Willis movie.

That’s a droll. is. droll.

Kat: is to the point of is it a Christmas

movie or an action movie.

It’s like, well, it can be both Bruce.

70Mary: It can

joe: Well, he actually, he said it’s not an action movie either. It’s a Bruce Willis

movie. I mean, he’s a brand.

Kat: take his,

joe: a brand so that he’s disqualified out of this conversation. That’s, well, that was

Macaulay Culkin. He said that Diehard wasn’t because home Alone is, but like, as we

said, Home Alone’s an action movie, essentially.

Violent.

Mary: No, it Home. Malone’s definitely a Christmas

joe: you could pull

it

Kat: Ah,

Geo: Christmas

joe: season.

It’s,

NIck: but you can pull it out. I actually, it doesn’t have to be on,

joe: it

Mary: but it’s

NIck: parents leave their kids

at home all the time.

Mary: A movie

Kat: yes, exactly.

joe: he redeem himself? Because in part two he was still a brat,

Mary: a movie.

Oh, no, he’s, well, he became Jigsaw, so I mean, he

never learned anything. So

71NIck: I see we’re calling him a brat, but like.

those

parents are trash. they have left his child

[00:45:00] alone. did you hear multiple times? Mo

joe: the uncle was in cahoots with the what do they

Geo: Oh, they a, he actually threw, Yeah, he

actually threw

away his plane.

joe: That’s right. Yeah. He actually, he was actually the villain in the whole thing

that he actually wanted him left there. So that, and he wanted to split the money

’cause he was kind of poor. Like they made

comment of that and they were going to actually do that. So really it was a, he that

was a heist job, but they were just bad.

Kat: I am, I’m surprised honestly, Mary, because I really can’t, I have a hard time

getting through Home Alone because it’s a kind of a bummer that family is so mean to

each

other. I yeah, they are. Yeah. it’s got great bling, but the house gets trashed

joe: It does. Mm-hmm. Again, at It together.

Mary: well, like, well, like going back to family members who make things weird

for everyone.

Geo: Well,

joe: I don’t know why they

Mary: That’s also very much

in the spirit of

joe: My

72other issue was that they decorated all that, they put all the decoration, all that

bling up, but they were leaving for a week or two

weeks.

That’s so weird. So I

don’t understand why they even decorate it. I mean, that’s the whole thing.

[00:46:00] They forced hollow Chris Halloween. They forced Halloween

because it could be Halloween. They could have decorated for Halloween, went

on a trip, and then he got

Geo: Halloween would’ve

made it

such a different movie. I

Mary: know

Geo: Gone so so far

Mary: off the

rails, right?

Kat: Well, I mean, honestly, yeah. The only relatable part of Home Alone for me is

when he gets a lovely cheese pizza all to himself, because

I also am from a large family,

joe: Yeah.

Kat: like I don’t get to have the Yeah.

Mary: How many brothers and sisters do you have, Kat?

Kat: have five of each.

NIck: Oh so I’m the, I’m the Damn.

Mary: You’re

the youngest of 11 children.

Kat: 11.

73Yeah. So

Mary: you were like, in the were at alone family,

joe: right? You were at a Macaulay Culkin of your family.

NIck: How

many times were you left home alone?

Geo: Did

NIck: Did your family

forget

you?

Like,

Kat: Are you kidding? I

would’ve

paid to be home alone. to be home alone. Yeah. See, of my experience.

joe: All

right.

I wanna touch on a few. Oh yeah. Solid. Probably non debatable, but there’s some

of the science in them. I have

On the ice way. Is Frosty

the Snowman.

NIck: Wait, what

is, what did you say before that?

joe: What

NIck: you start off with?

joe: That [00:47:00] they’re, I mean they’re Christmas movies.

Oh,

74okay. Solid Christmas Frostiness Snowman. I think that’s a solid Christmas movie. It

could happen some other time in a winter.

Kat: like

joe: It could happen.

Kat: of a winter

joe: Yeah, I guess it’s like The Thing, right?

Geo: or It could have taken place in Antarctica at other times.

over year, but it

NIck: take,

joe: no, I guess he’s a winner. Maybe you’re right. Maybe I just got winter movies

’cause I got Jack Frost here too, so, you know, maybe I’m back off of that.

But the science is interesting. A lot of hand wa on because Frosty. So a Frosty gets

the silk hat and he comes to life, right? And then in the animated feature, the magician

is actually built as a villain. But really the kids stole his hat.

NIck: they did not.

joe: The hat blew

off. Yeah. And he

has

the hat.

Geo: it’s

NIck: finder’s keeper’s rule.

That is exactly how it No. You come you lose your hat.

and I’m driving down the street and I’m like, oh, that’s a nice hat. And I pick it up.

no, you drop

joe: your car

75keys, someone picks ’em up and they start your car and drive off. You’re like, oh,

hey, find his key

for this guy.

Just keep it. That’s

an, that’s

from a No of It’s Always Sunny in [00:48:00] Philadelphia.

is it? I watch that show.

Mary: Yeah,

Yeah.

There

was like something

that flew away and

he, she immediately picks it up like, Hey, wait a second. That fell out of her

hand. She,

that’s not yours

And again,

NIck: to I now it’s exactly how it

joe: But he wasn’t, I think he had some right to get his hat back and

Absolutely. And get that back. So, yeah. I’m gonna put that on record. And then

Jack Frost, who was just,

NIck: wait, What Jack Frost are we talking about?

Kat: The one,

the, the Michael Keaton one, I.

joe: I

NIck: the horror movie, Jack Frost.

joe: Jack Frost. All of those entities have the same biology, particularly

76NIck: Well, I just wanted to make sure which one we were talking.

joe: could talk any of ‘

em. I’m talking

more

NIck: like the serial killer one.

joe: Yeah. He wasn’t, he was a human right. He was Right. I’m talking about the

embodiment of Frost Ice. Water turning into ice.

Kat: Are you talking about the,

Michael Keaton movie?

joe: I’m talking just the actual legend of Jack

Kat: Oh, just the

joe: spit. Right, right, right. An

Geo: Well, is there an, there’s

an animated, right? there’s an

joe: animated one also

where he’s just ice, like he’s an ice person, like frosty.

And it’s kind of, the question is, how would you get [00:49:00] to an ice person?

Because when you form water into crystalline ice it actually is destructive to cells. It’s

something that in, in, in my line of work, my research we try to create vitreous ice and

there’s a whole process to do that.

Mary: So what’s vitreous?

joe: Vitreous Ice is glass like ice, so it’s non crystalline. So when we free cells

quickly you remove heat so fast about 10,000 degrees per second that you form not

crystalline ice, but you form a different phase of ice, which is called vitreous ice. Or a

glass glassy ice.

Geo: So do you think Jack Frost was glassy ice?

77joe: I mean he, that he would have to be, or, you know, in that magician’s hat, the

reason he wanted it back so badly was because I think it was nano machines and AI.

So you had that there, that he was skid it

Geo: oh

joe: an AI hat. But

this would be a, this would almost like,

this

would be like an Iron Man suit hat where it’s this nanoparticle, you’re laughing. But

I mean, frosty, we think of fro let’s F folks on Frosty. [00:50:00] He had no skeleton. He

had no structure to make sound or throat. He had nothing. He had he, , so he is an em-

bodiment.

That’s just a snowman. The hat lands. Mm-hmm. The nanoparticles then infiltrate

and then he he resets every time. Like a bad computer, like happy birthday. , I’m think-

ing

NIck: also dunno how he does.

half the things I think.

Geo: I think he’s an

joe: extreme.

That’s right. Yes. told you it

would come Look, I did my job

NIck: and Georgia’s plugging in so many.

Geo: Oh, I love it.

joe: it. It’s a word.

NIck: every hole we can get in Georgia’s like Extreme Ohio,

Geo: you know?

Mary: What’s another girl.

78Great Christmas movie? Grumpy

Cat’s. Worst Christmas ever

NIck: with Aubrey

Plaza.

joe: the Grumpy Cat thing.

Mary: I love, that

NIck: Never seen

joe: Yeah. It’s so

Kat: Never seen it. I never seen it. Either.

joe: Either. Yeah. Oh, it’s,

Mary: Oh, it’s such a,

NIck: didn’t, that

Geo: like a number one?

Mary: Yeah. Rest in peace. Grumpy cat, yeah. Grumpy cat.

RIP. Yeah. That’s a bummer.

But we have this, and it’s great because [00:51:00] Grumpy Cat spends like 90% of

the movie just like in a cat bed sleeping,

you know?

And Aubrey Plaza’s, voiceover that. So like, the cat’s clearly

Geo: Being a cat,

Mary: Just

joe: So it’s really, like the real life, Yeah. No. Nothing like that. No, It, but it’s it’s

Mary: dumb as all get out. I love it

so much.

joe: Now, George and I, we watched a really interesting movie, Dead End, and it’s

a

79is it horror movie?

I think it billed as a horror

movie

or a

thriller

maybe. And

Geo: think it was billed as a Christmas movie

though.

joe: and it was billed as a Christmas movie. It comes up on list as Christmas

movies. And so on Christmas Eve, they’re driving to the mother-in-law’s house. The

husband’s driving.

Mm-hmm.

Geo: Mm-hmm. And

joe: then it’s this whole scene where they take a different route

Geo: Well, you don’t wanna

joe: yeah. I, I’m not gonna spoil it. I don’t know how old it is, but I’m not gonna

spoil it. ’cause it is a really good

twist at the end.

Mary: I’ve had

this world’s second.

joe: Yeah.

It’s like a So

mind eraser.

NIck: Yeah.

joe: And they drive this, they and little be,

Mary: got my little bell.

80ding.

joe: they drive down this road [00:52:00] and they’re lost on this road.

And then as they go parts of the family are getting taken and killed.

Oh wow. And it’s really it’s very interesting. Yeah. But it was, and we watched it and

at the end I was like, well is that a really

Christmas movie? But then after some thought I think it what it had to be set at

Christmas.

’cause that’s why they were trying to get there. Any other holiday you were just

like, let’s go back home. Like we went, we have to get there at this day. It had a re-

demption arc. ’cause it did have that at the end. It was interesting. It had the kind of

the moral buildup. So it had all these elements in here and I can, you described at,

had a similar list and I started playing with that and it really fits.

We talked about it’s good if you haven’t seen Dead End, check it out. I

mean it’s

Geo: In a strange way,

there’s part of the movie, like, I’m watching and I’m like,

oh, I don’t know. Do I like this movie?

But when it’s all over. It’s still, I’m still thinking about it and we’re still talking about

it.

So That’s

just the sign of good

joe: move. Very, it’s the sign

of a good

move. Very David Lynchian. I think it has that kind of that feel that atmospheric, I

it’s not

Geo: yeah. not, to that [00:53:00] level.

81joe: not his level,

but to that level, it, it’s in

Geo: The main character is a twin Peaks cast member,

and I can’t

remember

his name.

joe: Yeah, it’s all right. We’ll put it in the show notes.

NIck: Ray, Wes,

Geo: Um,

It’s

the dad.

NIck: Lana or Lauren’s dad.

Geo: Yeah. The dad.

NIck: Ray Wise.

Mary: Oh,

okay.

joe: Did you see Deadhead Nick? Yes. Yeah.

NIck: It’s been years and years, but I had to look it up.

joe: Yeah,

Kat: I’ve never heard

of Dead end. I was telling somebody

that I was gonna be uh, having this discussion about

Geo: about

Kat: uh, diehard and and

this guy this person who’s in

our weekly silent writing group, he said you know, McLean basically

82spends the whole movie, hiding from Alan Rickman in a building.

So basically it’s a Harry Potter movie, which

that’s the only person I have ever heard make that point, which I thought was

hilarious.

Mary: Oh, rest in Peace.

joe: Harry Potter is not a Christmas movie. set at

Kat: does have fantastic bling

joe: You’re right,

it does. But no, it’s not even close.

Yeah,

Geo: [00:54:00] like, okay.

Kat: hall with the

Yeah.

joe: Yeah. It has a

Geo: It has some scene, but it’s not a Christmas movie. Oh, no, absolutely. Well,

and then it was funny because we try to watch Christmas movies. Around Christmas

time. And we’re trying to be diplomatic and give our kids a chance to put in their sug-

gestions. So we write down on piece of paper and then we pick ’em out.

And

what was the movie

joe: that Daddy’s Home with a, and

Geo: and it was like,

it was set in the summer, but then there’s

one

scene

that is

83like

Christmas in

July or

joe: a, it’s like

they have like they’re separated the mom and dad and the, and then the wife is

Remar, is it Will Ferrell and John Cena?

NIck: No,

it’s not John Cena. It’s like Will Ferrell and Matt Damon

Geo: Oh,

joe: Oh, Matt Damon. Yeah.

Right. John Cena is Matt Damon’s like, yeah, there’s a whole thing. I think he

comes maybe

Geo: I think he’s in the there’s a couple of the movies. Yeah.

joe: yeah. And it was like, we watched this thing. I was like, well this isn’t Christmas

movie at all.

And then because the Matt Damon character wants to give hi, he didn’t get to do

Christmas ’cause he [00:55:00] was in jail, I think. He then plans this big Christmas day,

and so there’s like scene, a scene of Christmas of him planning that and it was like,

oh,

this doesn’t count. This is not, yeah, right.

Geo: we gotta make some more rules for this

Christmas

movie thing

joe: unless Anna, and the apocalypse, like Christmas musical, zombie Christmas

musical.

Have you guys seen that? Oh, yeah. I haven’t heard

84of it. It’s really good. I heard that

Mary: of that one.

Geo: We haven’t seen that

joe: did, but you

know, I think, oh, I’ve seen it. Yeah.

Mary: think for me though,

like when

you guys were talking about Harry, because I agree, I don’t think Harry Potter is a

Christmas movie either,

Kat: Oh,

no, Absolutely.

Mary: But I but it, but by those rules, I feel like Harry Potter

and Diehard shared

like the same

things

joe: eh,

Mary: Yeah.

NIck: boo.

joe: no.

Kat: No.

Mary: even worse

because Diehard, Diehard came out in

July. You know, and so,

joe: keep, you keep movies don’t Come out and, they’re, you

have to come out at Christmas time to be a Christmas movie. Like I think that’s a,

that

85Geo: that’s an inter some nothing rule there.

joe: But you don’t, I mean, because

that’s all [00:56:00] based on money and when you make money on a movie

is in a

Mary: you You would

Kat: Hollywood to

joe: A Christmas

Mary: movie in July.

In

joe: Yeah.

In the,

Mary: In the eighties when

NIck: it’ll be on DVD, Like by the time Christmas comes around it’s on vh,

joe: right?

That’s right. Yeah.

NIck: So that’s why they add it like that far in advance.

Geo: Well,

Mary: then every summer Blockbuster would be a

Christmas movie

NIck: I mean,

joe: No, no. But dude, no, that’s not,

NIck: they want it to be

out around that time so you can have it at home so you can watch it with your fam-

ily. To

Geo: To be honest, I think it’s an unintentional Christmas movie.

I

86think Christmas just happened to be

in Diehard, and I

think enough people are watching it and.

then

picking up on that and It becomes like

people’s favorite Christmas movie. I

joe: to do to

Geo: think It was intended

For

a Christmas.

joe: the

writers who wrote it, who haven’t come forward, or that Bruce Willis, who was the

action star, making a brand for himself to go.

This is Bruce Willis movie. Okay, great. Yeah.

NIck: Bruce Willis, who didn’t

write the film. It’s a Bruce Willis movie

joe: they [00:57:00] were going through their plot and their plot holes, Uhhuh

they purposely made that movie at Christmas time,

Geo: but they didn’t think it was gonna be a Christmas.

like

joe: they don’t know How do you know? I mean,

Kat: That’s, no, it’s the,

Actually one of the writers is on record,

or Possibly.

the writers is

on record, saying,

87he did write it to be a

Christmas

Geo: Well, there you go.

there you go.

joe: Yep. and

Mary: one more, and one more thing about Die Hard. It’s not

related to Christmas, but I love

this.

This thing about Die Hard is the undershirt.

cool

is the undershirt

Geo: as

Mary: a metaphor?

I do. I love it.

Kat: This is like an

abs adjacent,

uh,

Mary: But

NIck: I’m not sure what’s going

joe: I know I don’t either.

It’s like Rabbit Hole of Research.

Mary: Do you

guys remember?

Like he starts off in the movie. At first he starts off

with a white pristine,

undershirt.

88but

Making fists with

your toes. I don’t know. I don’t,

I think legs up the wall or legs up the chair personally

is better for, you know,

joe: What the heck are you talking about?

Mary: Anyway, remember the

reason

joe: know why he was

barefoot.

Mary: [00:58:00] The reason why he was barefoot

joe: is, The guy

took, he had to be barefoot, so that was a plot device there.

That’s right. Toes. And I thought, what? I thought Quentin Tarantino was involved,

you’re right.

Mary: Right.

Geo: Right.

Mary: So,

exactly. He

might’ve well

Geo: been,

NIck: but like,

Mary: as

the

movie goes

on,

89it gets

progressively Dirtier and by

the end,

like the troll, the

trappings are just

like his straight

and narrow. My way or the highway way is ended,

Like the,

Geo: he’s gotta just go with it.

Mary: completely gone.

at that point. yeah.

Geo: Yeah. I

Mary: just, I love that as a metaphor

joe: metaphor.

The

Geo: the

Mary: for

how,

John McClain has changed throughout the

course of the movie.

Geo: See

joe: his redemption

Kat: great. I have one great regret. One great regret about Diehard that they have

a hugely pregnant woman front

and they have Argyle in the parking garage.

If they had.

90just had her have to

try,

to go, like

give birth in

a garage parking spot, or they would be so open and shut.

Christmas movie, it’s So, like

Merry

and the not a Christmas movie. Yeah. Okay. [00:59:00] Anyway.

joe: But they might have cut that out in the editing floor. It might have had an

edit scene Well, they, but the problem is if she gave

Kat: had it right

joe: then

she would have to leave and ar guy who waited to bust out mm-hmm.

Until the end. I mean, you know, there’s a lot of little f flowy flaws in there where

this could have been shut down a lot sooner.

As Georgia said, it would’ve been a 10 minute movie if you fix all the plot

holes. Oh my gosh.

Mary: Yeah. This movie

would never,

ever happen. But let’s talk about the other cool thing about Diehard is

all of

the

joe: really liked Die Hard, it

sounds like

I mean, you want it to be a Christmas movie.

Kat: Bruce

91NIck: started off really hard.

joe: Yeah, yeah,

Mary: know, I you

Geo: I

joe: You came out like, I

NIck: I don’t like Die Hard. I hate

Bruce Willis. No.

Geo: ab

joe: if he didn’t have nice abs, I would’ve been like, don’t even watch that movie.

Mary: No, but you can

joe: look, I stopped watching him when he put the shirt on.

Mary: a Christmas movie, right?

That is

Geo: true.

joe: true.

Mary: true.

I like

joe: watching the movie when he put

the We wanna hear the one more point that Mary has

Geo: about

joe: now? How much she loves Die Hard. Yes,

Mary: Yeah, I

do like it.

So we’re talking like 1988, so, you know, you don’t have

[01:00:00] black protagonist like the, as the action star.

But you have, Argyle,

92joe: He’s mm-hmm. You know, he’s

Mary: Driving the li, This guy Christmas Eve, he

just has nothing else to do, but hang out in that limbo and hang out with, you

know, like, man, oh man,

Geo: most he’s so Carey about. it.

Mary: That’S the world’s most dedicated Limmer driver.

Right. Can You imagine anyone sticking around that long

for you?

Really? That

Kat: That

is one

thing

I did notice

though, you know?

it’s classic in action movies.

that the black Character goes first and horror.

movies. In this case, you have

the

safe.

joe: Mm-hmm.

Kat: Argyle.

Mary: Yeah.

joe: And

Kat: Al.

And I was, I was especially waiting for the safe

cracker

93to, go down in a hail of

bullets or

Mary: but he doesn’t,

Kat: three of ’em, all three of ’em make it through the

Mary: but don’t Well.

Geo: just

Kat: white guys.

who take it in the

face

and get ho, ho, ho on and, know, all that.

joe: Well,

the

white foreign, the,

Mary: The Germans,

joe: the yeah, the immigrants.

Kat: Oh, You’re right about that. Damnit. You’re right.

Mary: let’s,

also

talk about rest

in [01:01:00] peace. Agent Johnson, I thought he was unfairly

killed. He was awesome.

He was

amazing. Not the other agent Johnson,

Who cares about

him, but

the other guy, remember he was he had such a dry wit.

94And he ended up getting wiped out in

the

helicopter crash,

joe: think, right?

Mary: I thought that was a wrong note for me.

I was

waiting for

them

to survive the helicopter crash.

NIck: And I’m gonna circle back

though real and like

Mary: maybe like they would start in their own in their

NIck: Yes.

Batman

joe: and

Mary: their own action

movie series.

NIck: But the idea that a limo driver wouldn’t

wait around,

that’s They’re getting

joe: paid. Yeah. They are

NIck: like, it’s

money.

joe: Yeah.

I’m

NIck: to wait

95for

money. if I just have to sit somewhere.

Mary: He was really gonna wait.

NIck: Yeah. I’m just gonna sit

there. Yeah. I’m getting paid.

joe: and a timeframe.

Kat: relaxing

evening down

there. He was,

joe: was, out like hours. It wasn’t.

I mean, we didn’t get a good picture of that timeframe, but it wasn’t like that. He

didn’t wait like days down

Mary: I wanna have someone that dedicated on my side,

NIck: you wanna pay me enough, I’ll do

joe: Right. I, I, agree.

NIck: I will do it. and a tip.

joe: [01:02:00] So he is waiting for, he get paid and a tip that he is gonna get

when he comes out there.

And it’s like in a, you know, they’re gonna be taking a little extra especially ’cause

they’re That’s right.

Mary: It’s Chris.

Yeah, a

joe: hundred percent. I’m waiting.

They got a ban on Christmas Eve to show up. I mean, you know, they got, they’re

rolling in the Clearly nobody in this

Mary: movie. Yeah. Like you can have a, you can have a

96holiday.

Yeah. That blows

my mind. Yeah.

NIck: I mean it’s an extra toy for my,

Mary: if the, if, our

work had us a Christmas party, at Christmas Eve night.

oh

my God. I lose my mind.

Kat: what’s gross about

capitalism. though. I just saw a commercial tonight about one of these poor, stu-

pid box stores. You can leave your Christmas

Shopping

till Christmas

Eve.

joe: Mm-hmm.

Kat: I thought You

bastards,

you know, let these People

go,

home.

joe: yeah. Yeah.

Geo: Right, right. Well, and I

Kat: I listen though.

Geo: oh,

yeah.

Kat: Oh, I just have one question.

97I

just wanna, I have, because after this lovely experience is over, I go back to the

land where people look at me funny and start inching away. When I talk about this too

[01:03:00] long,

But I

just have to know

Mary,

why

is

Home

Alone a Christmas movie if Diehard is not

joe: On the is it about? Yeah. Why

Kat: Home Alone? well, it’s not the, it’s not the violence. I think. I think that,

Mary: Some people in here think that, I don’t think it’s a Christmas movie because

it’s violent. I just think that

it

just happens to be said

at Christmas, but it’s not a, it doesn’t really, it just doesn’t feel Christmasy to

me.

Yeah.

it just doesn’t

Geo: part

the whole

NIck: I’m I’m pressing tonight.

Mary: Oh

NIck: yeah, I’ve had A few

98Mary: What, What part doesn’t,

feel

joe: And it has the coolest Christmas song Run, DMC Christmas in Hollis

, you know? Yeah. I

Kat: Uh, that’s

Mary: I

think it ends super Christmasy. Right. It has the loan paper or the bond papers

floating down like snow

and

joe: Yeah. it

Mary: it ends with the

limo.

Yeah.

joe: Snow in la Right. I mean, I was, it’s

Mary: at Christmas. But

I feel like it’s

fairly

joe: Mute. I mean,

Geo: I think that this is one of those things that we just can’t solve, you know?

Well, like we,

just

joe: probably not this episode, we’re [01:04:00] running

against the clock here.

Yeah. What,

NIck: we

started on an argument this season and we’re ending on an argument.

99this season on

joe: What was the argument we started on? We,

Geo: Wes.

joe: oh what’s that? We about

the simulation?

Was that the That was our first, no, yeah, no,

NIck: that was the first episode. The season, wasn’t it?

joe: No, the first episode of the season was exploring Utopia and Dystopia.

NIck: Really? I thought

it was with Wes.

joe: No, that was the last, that was the,

Mary: was

Geo: season

joe: that was season one.

That was season

NIck: That was the end of season one.

joe: was towards the end of season one. And Mary,

Mary: like

for

Home Alone, Christmas is more prominent. It’s a thing you have to get back to,

your kid for s , to celebrate Christmas

together

joe: you gotta get back to your kid if you leave them.

Yeah. And you’re in France. I you just gotta , make a return

NIck: it doesn’t matter what time of year.

that is.

100Mary: Honestly, I, ,

joe: If I, that could be any, that could be a Tuesday

, March. How about,

Geo: Planes, Trains and

Automobiles? That’s,

Mary: it’s

a

joe: movie. Thanksgiving yeah. I said a Thanksgiving. Yeah.

It’s a, it’s

Kat: that does go back though, Joe. That goes back

to Your point [01:05:00] that

Christmas,

you’re under pressure, know, goes, oh God, we have to go to Paris. We’re late,

the flight, blah, blah, blah,

blah.

Mary: I

would’ve just like put, him

joe: well,

Mary: I would’ve

joe: trip anywhere to Paris or any trip you take, you’re under pressure to get to the

airport in time, especially when you have that large of a group of people.

So you pick any of the

other, right. That’s right. Yeah.

But I think

Geo: Christmas just makes it even

more,

101NIck: but it could have been Thanksgiving.

and it

would’ve been

just

as bad. Right.

Geo: And the busyness, of the airport and Yeah.

Kat: 4th

of July.

joe: Fourth or

July.

Okay.

Kat: have been Thanksgiving.

Geo: guess we should wrap this up pretty quick. In a Christmasy

kinda way. Oh,

Nick, what’s your favorite? I

know you’re not a big Christmas fan. Do you have a favorite

Christmas movie?

NIck: have the most sentimental. Christmas movie and that is Santa Slay because

every year Michelle and I will go ahead and make a gingerbread house.

Aw, While watching Santa Slay. Aw, I sweet. And I absolutely love how stupid and

gory [01:06:00] and violent that movie is because it’s something absolutely bonkers

going on.

Well, we’re just making a

nice, you know, gingerbread.

joe: Now think about gingerbread houses in people. Now is the house. Made out

of flesh or is it gingerbread person made out of house material? I

102NIck: the house being made out of flesh.

Kat: I have

a perfect cartoon for that I gotta send you.

NIck: it is

Flesh.

and

that is the only way I will eat it.

I like to know that my gingerbreads

are

full on just

trying

to survive, so they had

a bigger civilization until

joe: it’s a

call back to season one in the That’s amazing. Tortillas that tastes like flesh.

Mary: Well,

NIck: I

joe: I forget what episode

that was.

NIck: Was it taste like flesh or

joe: it

was like, tastes like Yeah, it was it corn?

NIck: Corn tortillas.

joe: Tastes like flesh. Oh, we gotta look back.

Yeah. Oh wow.

Kat: a cartoon. There’s a cartoon,

103my sister posts every year. That’s a

four panel and it’s a gingerbread [01:07:00] man sitting in a gingerbread house

and

it says A gingerbread man sits in a gingerbread.

house. Is the house made of,

flesh or is he made of?

house He screams for, He does not

joe: know.

Oh man. Look at

that.

Kat: Very

Mary: that’s in,

joe: I’m there, right? Someone’s got it. Yeah. Send me a link. I’ll put that in the

show

Kat: I will, I

NIck: What

about you, Georgia?

joe: All right, move along. Well,

Geo: my, I think my favorite,

I don’t know.

I have quite

a few that I like, but I, my favorite I think is Christmas in Connecticut.

joe: Oh, come on.

Kat: Oh fun

joe: thunder.

Now I gotta come back.

104Geo: God. Who

made you,

Who

made you

Kat: one? The original

Mary: also like

Christmas in Connecticut?

joe: I do like Christmas in Connecticut, but I’ll

pick a different one. yeah. It’s really good. You should stay here. We can watch it.

Let’s get it on. I’ll watch it

any time. Even in July,

you go.

Geo: you didn’t even

know about Christmas.

in Connecticut until I

joe: don’t like romcoms. It’s a nice romcom. It is. And I do

like, I like romcoms. Yeah.

Yeah,

too. Stand there. Okay. I mean,

Mary: can like some,

Geo: It’s, yeah. go

joe: Muppets Christmas or whatever. Yeah.

Mary: Oh yeah. Wes Christmas Carol.[01:08:00]

joe: Yeah.

NIck: Yes.

joe: Look at that.

105Mary: I have

a soft spot. I have a soft spot for the George C. Scott, Christmas

Carol. I really like

Geo: that one

Mary: That’s

a great one.

joe: I like Scrooge. Scrooge. That’s one of my favorites. I do like that a lot. I don’t

know. I mean, it’s

probably just, ’cause when it came out and I was of that age and that 88.

Mm-hmm. So I was an impressionable, what,

Geo: Young man. 15-year-old? 13 old.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

joe: I somewhere in that ballpark.

Mary: Yeah.

NIck: What about you? Kay.

joe: Kay.

Geo: Okay.

Kat: Uh, the, the, Muppet, the Muppet, I’ve had a few drinks. Okay.

NIck: I’ve just shortened it completely.

Kat: that. I am flexible.

Uh, Muppet Christmas Carol

is one of my Very favorites. It’s a wonderful life.

but I, but

I have to say, there is a

30 minute

British cartoon

106That was popular. At the same time.

as a Charlie Brown Christmas. It came

out Around the same time, and it was an annual tradition on British tv. It’s called

The

Snowman,

and if you

haven’t seen it, you can find it on YouTube.

It

is like [01:09:00] It is beautiful

and soulful. Uh, there is a piece, there’s a song

that

requires like a,

boy soprano and a choir,

and it’s like basically they’re frosty the snowman, but it’s

so

British. Classier.

yeah. I,

Highly

recommend

Geo: Yeah. Cool.

Mary: Thanks.

Kat: a, Yeah.

Mary: Yeah. Well, mine is the George C.

Scott.

Geo: She already

NIck: She already said this.

107Mary: really like That one.

Geo: I think Joe’s had a

joe: No I missed it. Well, everyone went around and then we foreclose in, so, okay.

Yeah.

Mary: there and,

of course, and right

now I’m just have PeeWee’s

holiday

special

joe: Right. You said that right? Right. Rotation.

NIck: I do. have to say off that. Yeah. TV shows have some of the best Christmas

show like

joe: Specials.

Geo: Ooh.

Like

Kevin Bacon on The Guardians of the Galaxy. Yes.

joe: There

NIck: I just finished up Gilmore Girls Gilmore Girls love it. Oh, that’s a nice

episode. They have. every time I just feel like it’s like, oh, this was great to have on dur-

ing the season. And Bob’s Burgers as well, always [01:10:00] have very solid

Christmas

episodes.

Mary: Oh, yeah. You know, the other one riff Tracks has also put a lot of their

Christmas shorts and

some of

joe: their mm-hmm.

108Mary: their Christmas movies on, on

YouTube for free.

NIck: Interesting.

Mary: And

for free.

Yeah. And they’re excellent. And If you get a chance, watch Wizzo of the Clown.

It’ll scrub your

brain

clean as a whistle.

You

won’t

NIck: remember Oh, good. ’cause I have so much rotten. in there.

Mary: Okay. Yeah.

joe: Or Snake Venom, either one.

Mary: Yeah. It’s, it is like, if you

can’t have Snake Venom, watch Wizzo the Clown.

You won’t remember

your own name after it. Okay,

joe: cool.

Geo: Did you, oh, did you say Joe?

NIck: Yeah.

joe: no, I was letting everyone

go.

NIck: wait, I thought you already did.

joe: No. I mean, Christmas kinetic is a favorite. I got, I Diehard Gremlins Scrooge. I

Scrooge I love Scrooge. I

109Christmas Carol adjacent.

I say Scrooge ’cause that’s a, just a derivative of Christmas, Carol. Yeah.

Those are my favorites. We did a whole gremlins episode, so go check that out.

Mm-hmm. I was gonna bring up the Grinch. I do, I mean the animated

NIck: Oh, not the Jim Carrey one.

joe: I love the Grinch. And [01:11:00] we did in the Heart episode, Heart of a Su-

perhero. We touched on Grinch in his heart condition. ’cause a heart de grows three

sizes too big. probably Not good for

you, you know? No, it’s, it is not good at all. Yeah.

Yeah. So, or something.

NIck: Okay.

joe: yeah. But yeah. Anything else?

Mary: Did we, Christmas ourselves out?

joe: think we’re Christmas out until next year. Well, to come back and debate.

Mary: I know.

joe: Die hard again.

NIck: Oh, I thought next year is the year of Santa Verse Krampus.

joe: We could do that. Yeah.

I have in my notes Yeah. The Biology of the Immortal Santa Claus.

We

NIck: I got Notes about that.

Yeah,

joe: I have notes on Rudolph’s bioluminescent nose also. So, I mean, there’s some

sciencey stuff we could touch on, but we didn’t get there.

Kat: well, my

license plate is X MSS 3 6 5. So I’ll just be waiting here. for you

110guys anytime you wanna come back to

joe: On that note, Kat, why don’t you go ahead and plug your deets.

Kat: Oh, yeah. Well, I

just have really two things. to plug. one is of course the virtual nation of Snow,

Glo, which you can find on

the evil Facebook

for now, even though it exists.

[01:12:00] everywhere at all times.

And

then also if you live,

in

northwest Indiana

I

manage

a

silent writing group under

The

international

Organization. Shut up and write That meets at Tinies in Gary every Saturday morn-

ing at 10 15. So

you can find us on Meetup.

That’s

uh, where I,

got the

comment about , Diehard as a,

as an

111overlap.

uh, in

the Harry

Potter, omniverse,

joe: I’m

Mary: you could do this.

This is

Geo: Yeah,

It’s

NIck: Thank you you for so much for being here with us.

joe: It’s all Oh, thank you. do

Geo: you know the the Tree Twins?

joe: What

are we,

Kat: yes. Do I know the, Tree?

Twins? Yes.

are, are that the Tree Twins.

are our cover photo.

Geo: Oh.

Kat: OG Glo

Geo: I had no idea.

Kat: I

do a

joe: What are the Tree Twins for people who aren’t?

Geo: Well Kat can probably speak to this better than

joe: I

112Geo: did meet the Tree Twins.

And I

have a picture. I got

Kat: You’ve met the Tree Twins [01:13:00] and Octavia Butler. My God, you were

like the greatest human being I have

ever known.

Unbelievable.

NIck: going on. Her

Mary: is

joe: awesome.

Wow. There it is. Yeah.

Kat: Okay. The Tree Twins just quickly are, it’s a married couple of men in San

Francisco. They’re on Instagram as the tree twins and they wear lit up Christmas tree

costumes and they go and they just dance all over

the city.

Geo: so,

you can’t

Kat: they go

on.

joe: Yeah. Wow.

Kat: they’re

Geo: cannot be sad if you,

yeah, if you see the Tree Twins, that sounds,

Kat: That’s why they are our

NIck: All right. That

Kat: mascots of Snow Glo.

113Yeah.

Geo: That’s awesome.

Kat: of Snow Glo is those two. Those two guys, they’re amazing.

NIck: You gonna put those in the show notes. Show

joe: in

the show notes. Yeah. That’s no hand waving on there.

Mary: Tree

Kat: They’re on

NIck: And they’re actual trees, right?

Geo: Yes,

They’re like Groot. Oh,

NIck: Oh, okay. I’m down.

All right. I’m here for

joe: right. Well maybe it’ll a costume

Mary: next year for Halloween.

I’ll dress

up as [01:14:00] a

Christmas

NIck: tree.

Oh,

you and

you Georgia,

Oh,

Mary: Oh, we can

NIck: well, hot damn.

Mary: twins. Yeah.

114Kat: also the tap dancing Christmas trees.

in the Bay Area. There’s the tap dancing Christmas trees, which is a dancing

group of women

who are

wearing Christmas tree outfits,

and uh, they tap. So we

could do that too. I could hit you

Mary: I’m here.

Kat: meet you there

Geo: That’s awesome.

joe: there you go.

Geo: Yay.

joe: Yay.

All right,

NIck: well, thank you, Mary. as well for being here with us

Mary: much. This is so great. I’m so glad I got to come

back.

NIck: I’m sorry. We just had to yell at you.

joe: Oh,

but

Mary: You know, yell away.

That’s I’m, That’s

what

I’m here for.

I’m here to ruin everyone’s Christmas.

joe: It’s all in the spirit. It was

115ruined

Mary: Christmas.

joe: It’s not Christmas though. Hans Gruber falls out of a window, so, Oh.

NIck: He’s on my tree.

Mary: Oh, he’s,

Kat: You know, there is a, There’s an advent calendar out there,

You’ve probably seen it,

which is, it’s the

Nakatomi building. uh, Tabletop size

And

then Hans,

Gruber is flying and you just lower him down. There you go.[01:15:00]

joe: Oh, nice.

I love 24th day he hits the ground. Oh my God.

Kat: Yeah.

not Christmas till Hans Gruber falls off the Naoma

joe: it is.

Mary: Oh my gosh. I love it. I, yeah, anyone who wants to get me

a diehard advent calendar is welcome to do so.

NIck: there.

joe: Whatever it is.

Mary: I mean, it’s still not Christmas movie, but Yeah, you

Geo: do that.

joe: It’s an advent calendar.

Mary: Love,

advent calendars. Anyway, it is ebbs adjacent. yeah

116joe: you’ve got me, Joe.

NIck: Yeah, I got Nick.

joe: I got Nick. You’ve got Nick Georgia. You got Georgia. a merry,

Mary: Merry

Christmas Yeah. everyone. And

NIck: And

Mary: And

NIck: we went down some holes,

joe: some tinsel holes,

NIck: Some

sparkly

Geo: Christmasy holes.

joe: Stay safe.

NIck: Ding, ding. Bye.